geteilt von: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/19377025
[…] I announce that our move off of wlroots is now complete and MR 6608 is now merged.
My opinion: let’s separate the software and the people making it. If it’s great tool and FOSS why not use it? You use software, not people.
EDIT: I know that FOSS heavily relies on community but also that’s the point. I don’t see how toxic comminity can progress further while more open minded and kind fork will be a better choice of the same software base.
What if you need to file a bug? What if you have a question on the config that’s not easily answered by the docs? If you never, ever find bugs and never, ever have questions, then sure, separate the two. There are genuinely people like that, but they’re not common. If you’re one of them, then I’m genuinely glad for you.
My opinion is this: You use software. You don’t use people, but you sure as hell rely on them.
Which is why you should only care about the personal opinion of those people when it actually relates to that reliability.
I don’t care whether Linus Torvalds likes disrespecting whichever company or people he might want to give the middle finger to, or throw rants in the mailing list or mastodon to attack any particular individual, so long as he continues doing a good job maintaining the kernel and accepting contributions from those same people when they provide quality code, regardless of whatever feelings he might have about whatever opinions they might hold.
You rely on the performance of the software, the clarity of the docs, the efficiency of their bug tracking… but the opinions of the people running those things don’t matter so long as they keep being reliable.
Since this change is entirely a result of the bad behavior of the maintainer and would not have happened otherwise, this a perfect example of why we fundamentally cannot separate the work from the people who make it.
Even if you do not agree with the social backlash this person is getting, that backlash has real effects on the work.
I, for one, no longer trust that hyprland will remain a well-maintained piece of software given that the maintainer would rather increase their maintenance burden and diverge from using common tools instead of cooperating with the community.
“Let’s remove the social element of our social movement”
Great so what’s left at that point, the free value FOSS provides to corporations?
If it’s great tool and FOSS why not use it? You use software, not people.
I didn’t write about its user base, I wrote about its community – the cesspool that engages among each other. That said, the moment someone opens a bug report, there’s a real chance that person gets harassed.
The thing about Foss is that it’s typically community oriented. You are not only able to contribute and participate, but you’re invited to do so.
And if you’re an asshole and your community is toxic then who cares if your code is good? There are other projects I’d rather participate in. Cuz you’re not that good.
I have contributed to other projects without really needing to get involved in their community in any personal/parasocial level, though.
I just make a pull request and when the code was good it was accepted, when not it got rejected. Sometimes I’ve had to make changes before it getting merged, but I had no need to engage in discussions on discord or anything like that. I’ve been in some mailing lists to keep track on some projects, but never really engaged deeply, specially if it goes off-topic.
If I find that a good code contribution is rejected for whatever toxic reason, then the consequence of that is the code would stop being as good as it could have (because of the contributions being rejected/slowed down), so it’s then that forking might be in order. Of course the code matters.
That’s correct, but sometimes in that sense you don’t engage with anyone and just read the docs. Also there are some cases when main contributors were toxic or unhelpful in a long run that community decided to create independent fork that’s more FOSS driven, not by elitism driven.
Would be great, but some people are really strange. Especially bad if you have to let go of the work of some people, because you cant do it on your own.
