That would be a morally correct political faux pas, that would result in Republicans scoring easy points just by saying “See! We told you so!”
It’s the kind of suggestion someone in a leftwing political bubble would make, forgetting that to actually be effective, you have to win votes from both sides.
There’s no room for tactical errors this election, even if they would make you feel morally superior. It’s not a game of moral signaling, it’s a game of politics. The point is not to be right, it’s to win the election.
you have to win votes from both sides.
I don’t know what you mean by this. Progressives just need people to vote. The higher the voting turnout percentage, the better progressive candidates do. Conservative voters are the last people to stop voting due to disenfranchisement, they are practically immune to it. There are not a lot of swing voters.
Yes, and the vast majority of Americans have no interest in voting for what they consider niche culture issues. Defeating fascists will protect everyone’s rights.
You’re not saying that they are disinterested, that this is an ineffective way to spend energy or something. You’re saying that it will actively drive moderate Americans to hate trans people. I think you need to look into your heart.
This is a reasonable response. But generally “energizing the base” is done closer to the election. We’ll see more preaching to the choir discourse around then.
I’m kind of hoping the silence on Gaza turns loud once the election is close enough that AIPAC money won’t fuck the election.
It’s the morally correct position. And running away from it will lose democrats votes they need.
They’re not gonna win republicans by going to the right. The democrats are going to lose if they try that shit. If they want to win they need to promise to bring back abortion rights, protect LGBTQ rights, and stop arming Israel. That would guarantee them a win. Especially if Kamala keeps up her economic promises she already made.
I hope Tim Walz can talk some sense into her.
Biden administration restores protections for gay and transgender Americans seeking health care
Abortion rights will take longer, because they need the Supreme Court for that.
Israel will not happen, they will likely continue to support traditional geopolitical allies who are clients of the military industrial complex.
…you would likely need to alter neoliberalism it’s self to do that one.
Maybe, just maybe, a system that makes doing the right thing a losing move, isn’t a system that we should allow to continue to exist.
I think @BallsandBayonets@lemmings.world was referring to First Past The Post in favor of Proportional Representation
Any other vulnerable minorities you want to throw under the bus while you’re at it?
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do you think winning an election is about the popular vote?
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do you think the Democrats are more likely to support trans rights?
If you answered yes to both, then maybe don’t suggest importing wedge issues into something that’s about the popular vote?
Do you want to give Trump more voters? Because that’s what you’re angling for. That’s what the headline is suggesting to do.
You’re mistaking wanting the most minority supporting side of politics to win the election for not supporting minorities? How the fuck doesn’t that even make sense.
Kamala’s job is currently defensive, dodge dodge dodge, stay clean, watch Trump get dirty and sink. It’s simple.
As soon as she’s won, then it’s time to be very very very noisy (and violent) on progressive and socialist issues again. But right now that’s only going to act as a kind of sabotage.
Which is fine if you’re an accelerationist who sees value to strengthening American Fascism. But I just want to try to end the Republican party.
If you answered yes to both
I answered no to both.
Do you want to give Trump more voters?
The only argument any centrist has when they move to the right like they all want to.
This eager dismissal of trans rights as just a tactical decision is entirely why people shit on liberals. Everything that isn’t the rock solid universally approved “normal” is just an anxiety attack away from being bargained away under the faulty assumption it’s an essential sacrifice in the name of protecting the status quo. Never mind that trans rights aren’t a major issue for anyone other than the hard right or trans people and their allies, and that dodging the issue in no way protects Democrats from being assigned a role in the culture war.
You could have just said “that sucks”. You could have pointed to efforts that could work the system elsewhere to protect them. You could have pointed to the myriad of trans rights issues that have majority of support that we could redirect the conversation to. You could have said literally nothing at all. But instead you wanted to broadcast how unimportant the rights of your nominal allies are.
Because to you, politics is just a game.
That’s a lot of words to just say that you don’t understand how politics works in the real world.
“Politics is when we capitulate to the most bigoted perspectives if they happen to be held by an important electoral demographic”
Bruh
I’m debating whether or not to even engage with you here given that you just gaslit a stranger because you’re upset about what the ruling class isn’t doing for you (presumably) - are you assuming maliciousness where ignorance might’ve sufficed?
You tell me. If you knew that you had all these great ideas and support for people but knew if you didn’t complete this first step, someone else’d be elected and do the opposite of those things, would you willingly lose and put those people you support at risk??
Do you really and truly think that progressives/liberals don’t care about trans rights? After all the bickering these rich assholes do on every damn channel on TV?
Give me a break.
You are valid in being frustrated You are allowed to have feelings and emotions about your treatment/mistreatment
But none of that makes it okay for you to take it out on your neighbors during a discussion which was trying to emphasize that politics are about strategy, not only morals.
This country operates via a leader person who’s voted for by majority count. In other words, that’s one person who needs to cater to 345 MILLION people.
Sometimes that means keeping your mouth shut on a particular issue temporarily to secure the win. When you’ve won, then you can start acting on those things you held off on emphasizing.
The alternative is that the other rich asshole not only comes in and withholds support, but also comes in and takes active measures to make it worse for these groups.
If it’s between regression and stagnation, I’m not happy with either. I will still take stagnation however because walking something back after it’s been walked back will only be harder.
When I go to pride festivals/parades I’m there to show my support. That’s active support.
Just because I don’t bring up LGBTQ+ rights and arguments at work doesn’t mean I don’t support them. Sometimes, by giving new dem voters some time to acclimate to the waters, you can give them the food later and they’ll be more likely to eat then, rather than when they’re first getting in the pool.
As much as some would like it to be true, you can’t just cram “new” morals down people’s throats and expect miraculous results. You can’t just tell people they’re a POS for not believing in what you believe in and expect them to be like “yo! I am an ignorant, holier-than-thou asshole… you’re right!” There is grace (growing thinner by the election cycle) and strategy in politics. Not everything is as shallow or malicious as people want them to be.
If democrats didn’t utilize this electoral ‘strategy’, maybe we wouldn’t have been taking steps backwards on women’s and LGBTQ rights.
If democrats can’t run on protecting minorities, and they can’t pass popular legislation (after they’ve won because they didn’t run on protecting minorities) because of congressional posturing, then maybe their electoral strategy is broken.
Bruh
I’m debating whether or not to even engage with you
It was this far in where I didn’t debate and just didn’t read any of this wall of text. I know nothing you’re going to say is at all worth reading, because if it was you would have started differently.
Election issues aren’t representative of what candidates do in office, issues which don’t have election promises attached end up having the most leeway for action later on.
But in some sense it’s all a sham because we’re still going to end up in neoliberalism Capitalism.
The real issues are: how much direct government support can we get to survive under Capitalism (meaningful nationalisation of government aid in the forms of government welfare support, healthcare, housing, education, and public transport programs)… And how much citizens can cooperate in order to force these changes and or create parallel community based support structures that are immune and legally protected from market interventions and effects.
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Strong government programs.
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Strong communities capable of mass protests.
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…and strong parallel community-supported actions/programs/organisations (see the Black Panthers Maoist breakfast programs).
Right now we’re just talking about a fairly thin part of 1). Don’t mistake a desire to win an election as an abdication of support for trans healthcare, it’s not. The desire is to get the less harmful neoliberal classist option into power.
The real challenge of maintaining pressure and momentum on Kamala and the left establishment Democrats comes after that, and will have to come from community organization directly.
Because Capitalists, left or right, won’t hand you their help, you have to demand it, make it, and take it from them by the force of your demands and the power of organized community mass action.
The ruling class (left or right) understand nothing less than that.
