@MattMastodon @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis

A thought,
I wouldn’t completely write methane, LPG , or any other petrochemical, off yet, as a seasonal storage medium.

They are a lot easier to store and transport than H2.
They can be produced from green H2 + captured CO2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanation

We have a lot of existing infrastructure which can use them.

That is of course If we can produce enough surplus Solar / Wind to make them.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/eth-zurich-fuel-air-and-sunlight/

@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis There seems to be a lot of uncertainty around the cost of green hydrogen. The first three Google links differ wildly on it.

Natural gas has certainly increased the cost of grey hydrogen lately.

If the problem is the cost of electricity, that’s easily solved by producing mainly when there’s a surplus of green electricity. However, if the cost is the capital outlay, that’s harder. Which is it?

Of course, we can and must require by law that all new capacity be green. Current incentives also include blue, but there is more green hydrogen actually being built.

@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis The problem with using it for long term electricity storage is leaks, of course. It’s a weak greenhouse gas (sort of).

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/17/pollutionwatch-hydrogen-power-climate-leaks

@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis IIRC most studies show that long term storage is only a few percent of total energy, certainly well under 10%. So it is a viable option - if you can get past leaks, and other problems (e.g. the temptation to burn it, producing NOx pollution). And can store vast amounts of energy relatively cheaply.

Nuclear is of course a viable option. There are a few others e.g. iron-air batteries, or just building a lot more renewables than we need. Long range interconnectors help. Lithium is only helpful for short to medium term storage.

Re synthetic fuels, so far extremely expensive and limited scale. Might possibly be used for aviation in the long run (but it’s easier just to fly less, and we still need a reliable, safe solution to the contrails problem). Maybe shipping too (possibly as ammonia).

@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis Here’s a study from a while back about how much storage is actually needed, using the example of Australia. You can get to ~98% with relatively little storage. For the remaining 2%, you need to think about more difficult options - demand side measures, nuclear, long term storage, etc.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/a-near-100-per-cent-renewables-grid-is-well-within-reach-and-with-little-storage/

@matthewtoad43 @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis

In terms of filling in the gaps in #energy production we could do some fun maths. Imagine massive #renewable overcapacity and see what storage we need.

Just move the yellow and green lines up x3. This is a typical summer week but we could also look at winter months (less #solar more #wind?)

@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis Well, California has done a lot of the work for you. Have a look at their charts, including multiple GW of battery storage.

Also the study I posted about Australia. There was another one but I lost it on the other place. You can get *most* of the way with a few *hours* storage, not weeks.

@MattMastodon @BrianSmith950 @Ardubal @Pampa @AlexisFR @Wirrvogel @Sodis There is commercial production of green hydrogen today, but it requires a subsidy. The cost of grey hydrogen does not reflect the damage it causes.

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