We can all agree on that, right?(lemmy.world)

posted 1 year ago

PorkRoll@lemmy.world

memes@lemmy.ml

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Kaea@sh.itjust.works

-10 points

1 year ago

Where. Give me an example of a socialist country

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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml

12 points

1 year ago

China, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos are all examples of socialist countries today. China alone lifted over 800 million people out of poverty in recent decades. Compare that to the capitalist paradise in India.

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Shatur@lemmy.ml

1 point

1 year ago

Does countries of Nordic model count? I heard good things about them.

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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml

16 points

1 year ago

Not really, Nordic model is capitalist because the capital owning class owns the means of production and holds power in society. Nordic model has generous social services and a social safety net, but that of itself does not make it socialist. A socialist model implies that it is the working class that holds power and that means of production are under a mix of public and cooperative ownership. This is the model that all western countries fight against.

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Shatur@lemmy.ml

2 points

1 year ago

Thank you, this does makes sense!

You previously mentioned China. And China do have big companies like NetEase. Are such companies under a mix of public and cooperative ownershiprs? How it differs from IKEA? Not arguing, just trying to understand.

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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.ml

16 points

1 year ago

The difference with China is that capitalists don’t run the government and all the core economy is publicly owned. I can highly recommend this book discussing why China is fundamentally socialist

https://redletterspp.com/products/the-east-is-still-red

This was an excellent discussion on the subject as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7Th2aV0wM

I find that comparing how China and India developed after WW2 is illustrative as well. India took the capitalist route while China remained socialist, and the difference today is stark. India has incredible amount of poverty and the situation continues to get worse, meanwhile China is responsible for the biggest poverty elimination programs in the world. The fact that China is developing differently from capitalist nations is a good indicator that something different is happening there.

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Shatur@lemmy.ml

1 point

1 year ago

I’m learning the material and I have a few questions.

You say that in China the capitalists do not run the government. But how do you know that they do not have their own business or are not affiliated with the capitalists? For example, in my country there is a law that does not allow deputies and the president to have their own business. But it does not work, these people simply register the business for other persons and, in fact, continue to own the business.

How China got out of poverty is amazing. But I also heard that the workers were very heavily exploited. This is one of the reasons why the US moved production there. And even now, workers in China are paid little despite the fact that the country is rich. How can this happen in a socialist country that should protect the interests of the workers?

As for the Nordic model, you said that it is not exactly socialism: it is capitalism, but with tough rules for business and good social programs. So they more centric then leftists really. And I don’t argue with that. But I don’t understand why if the capitalists run the country, they simply won’t loosen laws to make business easier and reduce social programs? How has this system not collapsed yet?

Sorry if some of the questions seem stupid, I’m just trying to how this all works.

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3 points

1 year ago

Will take a look, thank you!

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1 point

1 year ago

China is a terrible example of a socialist economy, and the others are still mired by poverty. One could claim that is due to capitalist sabotage, but I don’t think it does socialism any favors to use them as success stories.

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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml

-1 points

1 year ago

China is in fact an excellent example of a socialist country. Here’s a detailed explanation for you that’s well sourced and referenced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT7Th2aV0wM

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Stovetop@lemmy.ml

0 points

1 year ago

I’m going to level with you, I don’t have time to watch an hour long video for a topic that is likely just government-approved talking points.

In practice, I just don’t see any difference in the way the mega rich in China control society, just as they do in the rest of the western world. There is too much aesthetic reverence for the West in the upper eschelons of Chinese society.

It is just as dystopic as the West with the way workers are used as fodder by megacorps with no regard for their well-being. Any country with such widespread income inequality cannot call itself a socialist success story.

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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml

4 points

1 year ago

You used a lot of words to say that you don’t actually know anything about China and are unwilling to educate yourself. I guess just keep on believing your chauvinist fantasies about a country you know nothing about.

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Stovetop@lemmy.ml

-1 points

1 year ago

My man, I lived in China. You don’t have to sell me this bullshit.

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