Ukraine will be able to use Danish and Dutch F-16s to strike into Russia, while Belgium is saying only for use in 1991-border Ukraine.

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Two days ago, a Duma member suggested nuking Rotterdam. The same thing happened months ago, and every few months in the past two years.

Russian soldiers also actually shot down an airliner full of Dutch people, and tried covering it up.

I didn’t say that I support US policy, and you keep trying to deflect by pointing to them saying they are worse. And they may be, but they aren’t currently threatening military action against the EU.

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Two days ago, a Duma member suggested nuking Rotterdam.

Show me a source. Earlier in this conversation you said something was the “stated policy of Russia,” then when you went to find a source it turned out it was not.

Russian soldiers also actually shot down an airliner

Presumably you’re referring to Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. That was not shot down by Russia, but by Ukranian separatists using a Russian-supplied weapon. I’m not aware of any evidence that anyone intentionally targeted it, either, much less intentionally targeted it because it had Dutch citizens. Non-Russians mistaking an airliner for a military target is not the same as Russia targeting you.

I didn’t say that I support US policy

OK, so what military retaliation against the U.S. do you endorse? Do you apply your policy of retaliation to everyone, or not? That’s what I’m getting at – you do not apply your policy of retaliation to everyone, only countries you’ve already decided are Bad Countries. This isn’t deflecting, it’s showing that you are not being honest when you say “aggressive countries should see military retaliation.”

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Earlier in this conversation you said something was the “stated policy of Russia,”

Dugin’s book “The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia” has had a profound impact on Russian politics, shortly after its release the Duma had created a geopolitics committee staffed by Dugin’s adherents, it became a textbook for the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian military. So is Dugin’s book Russia’s official foreign policy? No. Does the book have a profound impact on Russian politics, and is it a guiding star for Russian ambitions?

Absolutely. If you ask Dugin, the only thing Putin is doing wrong is that he’s not doing it fast enough.

Dugin’s Russian faction is basically seeking the establishment of a new Russian Empire, and its methods - alliance with Iran, stoking ethnic tensions to encourage separatism in countries like Georgia, Azerbaijan or Ukraine and isolationism in the US or the UK are very visibly used by Russian foreign policy.

Russia officially says it’s not doing it, but Russia looks like Dugin, swims like Dugin and quacks like Dugin.

Show me a source.

For Russia threatening the Rotterdam Havens with nuclear strikes?

Here:

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-official-nato-target-nuclear-strike-netherlands-1908346

INB4 “well, it’s newsweek”, they are sourcing a Duma member on Russian state television.

And also:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67222213 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60547473

Presumably you’re referring to Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. That was not shot down by Russia, but by Ukranian separatists using a Russian-supplied weapon.

Ukrainian separatists in Russian “little green men” uniforms, coming from Russia, retreating back into Russia, with a launcher identified as belonging to the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, speaking with Moscow accents? After Russia claimed first that the plane they shot down was a Ukrainian An-26, then that they didn’t shoot down anything, it was a Ukrainian Su-25 with its short range infrared missiles? And after that, claimed it was actually a Ukrainian Buk? And now it’s “it wasn’t us, the Ukrainian Russian separatists are completely independent of us”? Is the Netherlands supposed to accept this fourth story after three proven lies and after independently confirming the responsibility of Russian citizens, and after Russia refused to be transparent during the investigation?

OK, so what military retaliation against the U.S. do you endorse?

Proportional retaliation for their aggressive actions. Right now, it’s mostly trade tariff back-and-forth over chicken and light trucks and stuff. The US has not been engaged in military action against European militaries since WWII. I would support diplomatic rebukes over the spy scandals of the last decade, though.

And I’m saying the same thing against Russia. Russian sponsored insurgents and Russian spies have attacked European civilians? Donating and selling weapons to this other neighbouring state which is fighting a defensive war against them is completely fair game.

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Stated policy means stated policy, not “a bunch of bureaucrats were assigned the same book once.”

they are sourcing a Duma member on Russian state television

Fair enough. It’s still a far cry from anyone in a position to actually use nukes saying anything like that, though. Here’s the stated policy of Russia on the topic:

Putin reiterated Russia’s formal position on the use of nuclear weapons in a statement to the Russian HRC on December 7 with no noteworthy changes. Putin claimed that the threat of nuclear war is growing, but that Russia will not be the first to employ nuclear weapons. Putin added, however, that if Russia is not the first to initiate the first use of nuclear weapons, it will also not be the second to do so, because the “possibility of using [a nuclear weapon] in the event of a nuclear strike on [Russian] territory are very limited.” Putin reiterated that Russian nuclear doctrine is premised on self-defense and stated that any Russian nuclear use would be retaliatory… Putin’s statements support ISW’s previous assessment that while Russian officials may engage in forms of nuclear saber-rattling as part of an information operation meant to undermine Western support for Ukraine, Russian officials have no intention of actually using them on the battlefield.

Why does some random Duma member’s offhand comments mean more than this?

Ukrainian separatists in Russian “little green men” uniforms

So your theory is that Russia intentionally shot down a civilian airliner, targeting the Netherlands specifically… why, exactly? Do you think they’re mustache-twirling villains who do evil stuff because evil is fun?

Proportional retaliation for their aggressive actions.

Ok, what proportional retaliation does the U.S. deserve for Iraq?

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