It’s like every time there’s a war everybody forgets how fucking long they take. WW2 took six years. The Vietnam War took almost 20 years, same with the Afghanistan War. Anybody expecting anything solid within the next couple years is delusional. Ukraine is in it for the long haul.
That’s not strictly true. On the short end, there was the six-day war. On the long end, there was the hundred years’ war.
Putin was clearly aiming for the short option, but then I suppose most belligerents usually are.
I’d actually love to see a graph that shows the distribution of lengths of various wars
Dude took the low end and said “fuck that we’ll do it twice as fast.”
The good news is I don’t think Russia can continue to sustain these kind of losses for 199 more years.
It was never supposed to turn into a real war. They wanted to assassinate Zelenskyy put some Russian plant in as president, annex some more land and call it a night. Obviously Zelenskyy survived and the rest is history.
The US is on its last legs though. It badly needed this win. The US falls before Putin dies.
I always take a peek at the comment history when I see things like this. And this guy basically just woke up to say things like this in one specific thread.
I’m no longer a mod of anything these days, but if I had a mod-hammer I’d send you into the next galaxy.
“We shouldn’t help the rape victim and they should hope that it’s over quickly. Also, it’s actually not rape, it’s a special sexual operation and they deserved it.” - Tankies
And shelling civilians in the Donbas is presumably the equivalent of putting on a nice dress in your metaphor?
Make extremely inappropriate and wrong rape comparison ⇒ Accuse anyone who disagrees of being a rape apologist ⇒ FUCK TANKIES!
Extremely normal and sound logic there, definitely not just vibe-based emotional manipulation.
Funny how if you’re against another endless war you’re a tankie and support Putin…
I’m neither a tankie nor I support Putin. But I also don’t support NATO and the Empire.
But just as a note, most “tankies” don’t support Russia and know Putin is a conservative capitalist. I mean he is the direct result of the dismantling of the USSR by internal revisionists (tsarists and capitalists) and the CIA.
But again, it’s the Iraq war all over again. And you libs are doing THE SAME THING. It’s hilarious.
There’s a lot of angry liberals replying to your post, so I thought I’d link a great video on how/why the war in Ukraine came to be:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&si=gaMRzFwo5JP5RzeD
This channel is leftist but they aren’t communists, as far as I know.
Tldw: This war was completely avoidable. Had the US/NATO kept its promise to not expand eastward none of this would have happened. Even Biden said that 25 years ago. Americans groomed certain Ukrainians for political office, and prevented others from running. There was an opportunity to end the war last year on somewhat decent terms for Ukraine, but Boris Johnson rushed in to stop it from happening, promising massive support. But war exhaustion has caught up and Ukraine is running out of people, and western leaders are already starting to call for the end of the war — except this time it will be on russias terms and Ukraine is going to get fucked. Big western capitalists have had their fingers in this pie because there’s a lot of money to be made in the country. That’s it.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Putins invasion was a horrific, imperialist move. Any commie you see protesting the war isn’t doing it because they support Russia (Russia is a capitalist country), they’re doing it because they don’t support NATO. We are often the makers of our own enemies here in the west. Viet Cong, Taliban, ISIS, and Russia were all created or shaped by western (mainly US) policies.
Seems like to you being a lib means not falling for badly researched, one-sided videos?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
You know what? I never thought I’d say this but I’m with Ukraine on this one.
This whole counter offensive insanity is so militarily nonsensical that it had to have been mounted to please the West with a “win” so that they’d stay in the war. Real Chiang Kai Shek committing the best of the KMT army to Shanghai to impress the Westerners energy.
The West is standing on the sidelines, supplying just enough equipment to keep the embers going and judging the ordinary Ukrainians going to their deaths by their hundreds.
Fuck the clowns in charge in Kiev and fuck the Nazi militias obviously. But at this point the men being sent to the front are old men and boys dragged off the street against their will. Sending them to die to appease the West is fucking sick.
from the moment they realized Kyiv wouldn’t be lost in a week
Goes back way longer than that, at least to 2014.
This got an upvote?
Are you open to proposing your master plan?
Ukraine has been invaded. Are you suggesting they do not fight back?
NATO is not war. No NATO country has been attacked. Engaging against Russia directly would put NATO at war with a nuclear power. I cannot imagine that this is your plan.
Not just “the West”, but everybody is on the sidelines as far as direct engagement goes. Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can. Some to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Most have imposed crippling sanctions. So. “sidelines” is a bit misleading from that perspective.
Even Russia’s allies are “on the sidelines”. You certainly do not see much overt support from China. They have even maintained ( in fact stepped-up ) diplomatic relation with Ukraine.
Or are you trying to imply that the underlying cause of everything here is something other than Russia’s continued invasion? Everybody could truly go back to the sidelines if Russia just left.
The only other path is for Ukraine to win. Are you supporting that or not?
If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.
Zelenksy tried to surrender to prevent further deaths, and Boris Johnson refused to let that meeting happen because NATO isn’t finished using Ukranians as crash test dummies.
If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.
This has literally never been true in any war ever. Foreign occupations rarely tend to be bloodless and I doubt a Russian one would have been an exception. At no point were any of the peace talks about Ukraine’s surrender – only renouncing it’s NATO ambitions in exchange for the withdrawal of Russian troops, as per:
“In the weeks ahead of Johnson’s April 9 visit, high-level diplomatic talks held in Belarus and Turkey had failed to yield a diplomatic breakthrough, though reports in mid-March indicated that Russian and Ukrainian delegations “made significant progress” toward a 15-point peace deal that would involve Ukraine renouncing its NATO ambitions in exchange for the withdrawal of Moscow’s troops.”
At no point was surrender on the table - that would have likely lead to Zelenksy’s detention and execution in the early days of the invasion.
Zelenskyy tried to surrender and Boris Johnson stopped him?! Ooooookay… He maaaybe (all “unnamed” sources) expressed an opinion, which the U.K. learnt the hard way, that you cannot negotiate with dictators. There can be no “peace in our time” with dictators hellbent on destruction.
To cast that as “Ukraine was stopped from surrendering” is just obscene … and yet another Kremlin talking point.
What do you mean by not just the west?
We have almost zero countries on Asia, Africa and Latin America which have sanctioned Russia or sent military aid to Ukraine
This is just related to nato/Europe/global north countries.
Europe is not the whole world
But are they supporting Russia through money or tanks or drones or intelligence? No? Then they’re on the sidelines. Like they said.
Ukraine has plenty of opportunities to win. It could have chosen to chart a more balanced position between the EU and Russia. It could have given the Donbass some independence referenda and just let them go. It could have actually tried to adhere to the numerous Minsk Agreements to deescalate and prevent war. It could have negotiated for peace while the Russians were pulling back after its previously more successful counter offensives.
But each time its leaders ignored the off ramp to peace and pursued delusional maximalist goals, egged on by promises of EU and NATO membership which even Zelensky acknowledged publically were just carrots dangled in front of Ukraine.
Now there’s no pathway to any sort of Ukrainian victory and the most realistic scenarios all involve Ukraine permanently giving up Donbas and Crimea. The only difference between the likely outcome now and just giving them a referendum in 2014 is a couple hundred thousand Ukrainian graves.
I’d respect the EU and NATO more if they had actually followed through with their promises to Ukraine instead of this Charlie Brown football bullshit.
Give your mother to russians and after that you can propose to give Ukrainian land.
For the copypasta. You really distilled a lot of liberal brainworms down with good comedic timing.
Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can.
lmao here i am living in a 200 million people country where nobody gives a single fuck about ukraine
even more political groups and discussions rarely involve ukraine except when lula decides to own zelensky in some way, no one here cares about nato’s proxy war
even more political groups and discussions rarely involve ukraine except when lula decides to own zelensky in some way, no one here cares about nato’s proxy war
I mean why should they? Brazil as a country (you mention lula, so) isn’t in NATO so it doesn’t have an ideological reason to support Russia or Ukraine in the matter. There’s nothing to be gained geographically for Brazil either, since whoever controls Kyiv doesn’t directly impact any strategic concerns for Brazil afaik.
You say no one cares, so while I think most people in Canada and US hope that Ukraine “wins”, does that mean apathy in that regard or would you say most people are passively hoping Russia achieves its war goals?
The comment threads here are weird. Who, in their right mind, would ever support a country like Russia? It’s mind blowing.
There sure are a lot of Lemmy bro-gaders and NATO shillbots in this thread. That’s the only explanation for people disagreeing with me.
Literally anyone who disagrees with me is by definition a bot running out of a basement in Langley VA.
Seems to be an equal amount if not more Putin shillboys happy to amplify the Russian propaganda machine here too!
Lmao I am literally mocking your exact sentiment. People disagreeing with you does not mean they’re bots or paid to post. Get out of your echo chamber
New drinking game. You take a shot everytime some hexbear pops into another instance and posts any comment that:
- Is positive towards Russia, China, or the DPRK.
- Is negative towards NATO
- Is genocide apologetics, or dismisses human rights violations by current or former communist countries as fake or not something to worry about
Garanteed to kill you before the day is over.
Yeah, take a shot every time one of us dirty commies denies the existence of Saddam’s WMDs. The biggest propaganda machine in history would never lie about it’s rivals.
You hexbears are always so angry. I suggest getting a vibrator, it’ll help you release some of that tension.
Brigading is clicking on the article that is on the top of all
Why is it inherently bad to be negative towards NATO and good to be positive towards Russia, China or the DPRK? I thought you guys liked nuance.
I have yet to see anyone do genocide apologetics or dismiss human rights violations. Thinking critically and investigating claims is a good thing, and you thinking otherwise shows how pathetic you are.
New drinking game:
Take a shot when libs call people disagreeing with them “brigading”
Take a shot when libs use the word Tankie or authoritarian without being able to define them.
Take a shot when libs fail to provide a source.
Take a shot when the only source they can provide is Wikipedia, Kiev independent or Radio Free ____
Take a shot when they do double genocide theory.
Take a shot when they use bigoted language.
Take a shot when they act like smug little shits and then cry foul when they get treated like smug little shits.
Here is the thing. It’s only liberals that threats this as a football game were you have to cheer on one of the teams. If you actually know the history and some form of idea about the geopolitical stage, you can be on the side that actually wants peace. Not “until the last Ukrainian is dead” that the west wants.
Why would you do that? How does it sound funny to you that US propaganda is so important to you that you would poision yourself if you weren’t surrounded by it? It get you were trying to make a joke but the joke is that, " if I encounter anything other than US propaganda I need to self harm so I don’t acknowledge it."
It is just wild to me that you exist in a state where this seems like a banger post.
You’re right, better to “think for myself” and only listen to Russian propaganda.
