I guess Rick Berman was okay with homoerotic women stuff, just not men stuff?
It kind of still is. Most people who oppose “teh gays” mostly talk about male-male…
My mother in law has no problem with M/M but complains about lesbians (says it’s disgusting) - I then assumed homophobes are bothered more about gays of their own gender in general.
“WE DON’T WANT ‘MEN’ IN THE WOMEN’S BATHROOM”
And FTM transpeople? You’re cool with them using the men’s bathroom?
“Eff te wat? What are you on about?”
I do not agree that this was about audience approval.
I pointed out to others in a Garak thread that before Garak was introduced (and before these two episodes), we already had Roy’s gay son on Wings who intentionally defied all stereotypes, the gay male couple who owned the B&B in Northern Exposure and the reveal that the town’s founders were lovers, not sisters, plus more than one episode with a gay man as positive characters in L.A. law and Roseanne. If you want to push it back further, you had Billy Crystal’s character in Soap who did have stereotypical mannerisms, but they were really downplayed and he was one of the only decent members of his family.
The audience was ready for gay male characters on a show that already celebrated diversity. Berman was just a bigot.
Lesbians have been fetishized because it feeds into a FFM threesome fantasy. The entire setup is just aimed at straight men who are single or unhappy with their marriage. All too often when F/F relationships are portrayed like this, when the women are out together they are almost always flirty with other guys they meet, like they are trying to plant the seed that one lucky guy could be taken home with them.
While I certainly agree the audience was more than ready for M/M and bisexual male characters, we didn’t see it nearly as much because the bigots in charge didn’t fetishize it, and didn’t want it front and center even as a B story because it was going to cause backlash, from themselves and other bigots like them.
Ricky B. Probably thought it was a Sappho situation. To be honest, Berman did the most damage to Star Trek while TNG was still on the air.
After that, he became the Kathleen Kennedy of Star Trek - still in power on paper, but amounting to much less as time went on.
DS9 was essentially run by Ira Steven Behr and Voyager by Jeri Taylor. Which is why they were so unusually sexually liberal and feminist, respectively, for something on network prime time in the 1990s.
Edit: Feminist, not feminine. Not really wrong, but a weird way to say it. :P
Yes, but even there, Berman prevented characters from being gay and out, which is why he quashed what was very obviously intended to be a romantic relationship between Garak and Bashir. Both of them play their characters like there is a mutual attraction in the episode where Garak premieres.
This take has been throwing me off lately. I can definitely see how what a lot of is said can certainly be an innuendo, but personally I just thought thats how Garak is. Always mysterious, giving double entendres, etc. I think it would definitely have been interesting to explore that scenario, but personally I think it already fits very well as “Thats how Garak is with anyone”.
Berman had reduced roles as each of the seasons went on but he still did the damage. Behind the scenes he’s the primary reason Terry Farrel left the series, harassing her for literal years at that point and finally using his influence to try and financially dominate her, which she basically said fuck that and refused the contract.
While Nicole de Boer did an amazing job picking up the role with basically no build up or introduction that the character was due, the shoes she had to fill were just too big and the character suffered as even the writers were trying to figure out what to even do with the character. Various other rumors and things cast members have said have pretty much all pointed back to Berman about tensions on sets writers not being able to use the plots they wanted to run in the show because they didn’t align with his bigoted views.
Hmm… I think the Ezri character arc is actually pretty strong for being in the show for only one season of a show in the nineties. I mean, they had the whole conflict with Worf up to a new friendship and her dissing the Klingon empire, the episode where she helps Garak, the episode where she finds the killer, the episode where she helps Lennier detect the Houdinis, the episode where O’Brian goes missing and we see her family… The only thing I really didn’t like was how she was basically shown as incompetent in the Nog PTSD episode. That was a wasted opportunity showing her as a great counselor. But Troi was also always incompetent at her job, so I guess that’s tradition in Star Trek. But all of these episodes are unique to Ezri, except for AR-558, none of these story lines would have worked with Jadzia.
I mean…have you seen the Trek fan fiction?
I haven’t. I’m just assuming everyone was writing about Kirk and Spock back in the day, too.
So uh… what was the gay episode?
It’s been too long since I’ve last watched DS9, but skimming though the episode summaries, I’m guessing it’s s4e5 “Rejoined”
A Trill scientist (Susanna Thompson), whose host once was married to Dax’s previous host, arrives on Deep Space Nine; the former lovers must decide if they want to resume their relationship and defy the laws of Trill society.
Actually it is season 5 episode 7:
While vacationing on Risa, Worf and Dax meet a group of fundamentalist protesters who claim that the Federation has gone soft.
Just watched this yesterday. Because I am a man of science.
I think they were asking what the other episode was that the meme was calling “the gay episode.”
I hate that episode with a passion. Worf just randomly becoming a terrorist with no repercussions is just so extremely stupid.
