If you ask someone if they are Nazis, and their answer is to get confused and ask about the premise of the question, there is about a 90% chance they are Nazis. Non-Nazis will say, “What? No, definitely not.”
If you ask someone who isn’t a Nazi if they’re a Nazi out of nowhere then confusion seems pretty valid. If there’s a premise to it that they understand (by being Nazis or acting like ones) you’d get less genuine confusion.
E: I wasn’t talking about the specific case in OP but in general
Is there something about the tabletop portion of the community I don’t get? I just like the lore of the universe and if someone asked me if I was a nazi based on that I would be very confused.
Yeah but even if there’s some initial confusion, most normal people will get to a clear negative answer pretty quickly.
That’s true. But I’d definitely also want to know what prompted the question
Meh depends on the setting. My partner and I are organizing smaller concerts from time to time. If we are about to book an unknown band sooner or later we have to ask the Nazi question.
The setting here feels similar.
what do you look for in their responses?
surely they dont go „oh yeah we are nazis, you got us“
Of course setting, their actions and whatnot matter. It isn’t out of nowhere if there’s some context for it that the recipient also understands.
Tbf, if someone asked to join my discord server and asked if we’re Nazis I would also ask for further clarification. Not because there’s a chance we might be Nazis but because it’s an odd question.
Non-Nazis will say, "What?
This is also ‘getting confused’, to be fair, lol.
I get the impression that even those agreeing with the Nazi-like stuff are not literally self-identifying as “Nazi”, so I think you’ll get that initial “huh” reaction regardless.
Might be better to ask a more specific telltale question.
Always amazing when people don’t get satire.
My Dad actually thought Starship Troopers was pro-military.
So did The Boys and Helldiver’s 2, and yet a substantial population of conservatives took it literally. Now The Boys has to be so blatant, it’s not as funny anymore.
Some people are just idiots, just the way it is.
Lmao about the boys. I started watching that and definitely in the first season it wasn’t even subtle, by the 4th season, which apparently is when conservatives got mad (?), it was beating you into submission with the messaging. Like, subtlety was not even in the lexicon, more like bulldozing you.
Maybe if they paid more attention in English (and history) class, they wouldn’t miss subtext the size of a tractor trailer running into them. But conservatives and STEM bros almost always seem to be on the same page with that shit “No one needs English classes, it’s always just like ‘hur the curtains are blue’ bro.”
I’d like to know more.
In all seriousness though, I thought it had some aspects of good, which was odd given that it’s satirical commentary on fascism. For instance, gender didn’t really matter and women were promoted, and while the shower scene was meant to show how fascism castrates the masses (or something like that, iirc), I thought it was a relatively wholesome scene, all things considered.
Because the dad read the book, and hasn’t seen the movie.
The book definitely is pro-military.
Half of America has the literacy of a 5-6th grader. They can understand the words, but not the "deep"er meaning of things. If it’s not explicitly spelled out by name, they won’t connect the dots.
If you’ll recall, their defense of the quid pro quo during the Ukraine impeachment was that he never used the phrase quid pro quo, so he could have done that.
They’re that stupid
So, I have read and been told this many times before. Some times I will rewatch the movie to try and see that narrative. And I’ll admit, I’m and idiot. But I can’t get past the idea of: Bugs are just icky, no matter the size. Remove at all costs.
Except they aren’t bugs in your home, they’re isolated to their own planet already.
Plus, consider the justification for the attack;
“the bugs attacked Earth first”
REALLY?
Consider the amount of maths and physics knowledge for us to get to our own moon. We have to calculate the trajectory of our own moon, the spin of the Earth, gravity, etc.
Now, in the movie, apparently the bugs bombed Earth.
FUCKING HOW. They exist outside our solar system. The level of maths for this is impossible without computers.
Not only have you got all the complications we had for a celestial body which was closest to us, but our sun has its own orbit within the milky way.
The narrative that the bugs attacked Earth first was a false flag. It was almost certainly just a meteor which couldn’t be stopped, which gave someone a reason to keep the perpetual motion machine of Fascism alive.
Without a common enemy, Fascism turns inwards.
The most satire parts are not about fighting the bugs. The “only a dead … is a good …” is a classic fascist trope, but it’s the parts about disregard of human life and health and the propaganda in the movie that really mock fascism.
I watched it way back when I was young and didn’t get any of the satire. I watched in my 20s and I asked myself:
You have technology to move through space and shit, they could just rain bombs from orbit or throw asteroids onto the planet. But no! The best way to fight is to use masses of underquipped soldiers that fight the horrors of bugs.
The war seems secondary, killing soldiers looks like the first priority in these movies.
The most blatant satire part of the movie (imo) is when the recruiter with the prosthetic arm says “the mobile infantry made me the man I am today” and scoots his chair back revealing both legs missing.
Also near the end when NPH shows up in what is almost a direct copy of an SS uniform. It’s a bit on the nose.
The brilliance of the movie is you follow the main characters who are 100% indoctrinated into this shit. There’s really no voice of reason. Nothing (aside from the whole nazi uniform thing) really screams fash if you’re not paying attention.
I will never understand how they made the entire movie and then had any possible thought people would understand their perspective. The problem is they got lost in the utopia part of the fascist utopia. Sure their culture looks weird from our perspective and has a fascist paint job., but is it really that bad of a society to live in as depicted? Everyone is depicted as generally agreeing with society and it’s norms, society seems to filter people into the roles that actually let them reach the best of their own abilities and that of the culture. No semblance or poverty or even elitism – except against bugs which are mindless as far as the audience knows. The closest we get to seeing that the bugs might be sentient is a psychic dude telling us that a prisoner of war is feeling fear while it is bound, defeated, and surrounded by its enemies.
The book is super pro military; arguably it’s a political science treatise arguing about the nature of the monopoly of violence and, given that concept, how society inevitably flows. He also throws a few digs in there at communism.
He then dedicates the rest of the book to figuring out the training and doctrinal approaches of literal space marines.
I know the book was but this sort of people who think that starship troopers is profascism, are also a sort of people that will definitely not be well read.
I can interpret something as pro facist without being a facist. They are not mutually exclusive things
I was briefly into 40k in the 00s, but once the 2010s started I slowly started getting an ick feeling from it but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it.
specifically, I was still cool with most of the lore, but the Imperium fanboys were getting to be unfun to be around. As I got older and wised up, I figured out around the same time many others did, that these same people just had a fascism fetish in general.
so with all that said.
Death to the false emperor Let the galaxy burn BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
As someone who likes the Space Marines, but hates Nazis and understands that Warhammer 40k is satire, I’m greatly saddened by the Fascism fan boys in the community.
I also played around the same time as you, but by total chance almost our entire group played xenos. I was craftworlds and harlequins, there was a necron player, a tau player, a tyranids player, and an orks player. We had one space marine player, I had a very small grey knights army, the necron guy had a small guard army, and a couple of chaos players. It was quite jarring to see how much GW and the hobby at large focussed on the Imperium
i never even got to the play stage. I got frustrated with the cost of materials, and having to learn how to paint, it was like trying to run 2 hobbies at once. ended up selling my stuff. so my interest was mostly video games. and still then, theres only a handful of 40K games I liked
tried it again in the later 2010s, same effect, i wont make the mistake a 3rd time.
If the setting and tabletop gameplay interest you but the craft and painting side plus the associated cost puts you off, it might be worth looking into Tabletop Simulator. Basically a virtual tabletop, and one of the many things you can play on it is WH40k - and now, of course, all the models come pre-“painted” and at no additional cost per model
yeah played as a child, first lotr, then fantasy and then a little bit of 40k
for 40k i had a space marine army because they where in the starter box and i liked the bolters, but besides the generic space marines (which could be painted in any color sceme you liked) there where just the wolf chapter (grey wolfs or something?) and the blood angles back then, the other armies where all different races and in my local gw every faction was present.
but a year ago i dusted off my collection, got back into lotr (now mesbg), it was always my main game, but also took a look at the warhammer stuff on the gw website:
More then half the fucking 40k factions are now different flavors of space marines! What happened to coming up with own lore for your space marine chapter/color scheme?
There are now even space marines in fantasy! WTF?! (Stormcast Eternals)
I played Imps and I still cannot wrap my head around people thinking the empire is the good guy. The appeal to me is that they are normal people pulled into an unfair and cruel world led by people who are entirely indifferent to their suffering. The best IG stories always involve a lot of infighting.
These days I don’t really tell people I am into it.
It sounds like most people who are really into superhero comics, then start to question the whole “let these elites fight for their brand of justice without the consent of anyone else” and then you wonder what your principles are.
Mine currently swing between “huh, maybe elites with a good code of conduct is a net win” and “huh, maybe anarchy is ideal form of state”.
So, uh, where’s the diagram?
this is an edit on an older green text, but the premise was gym, based, and cringe.
Makes sense. It is an oft discussed trend though. There are large unmoderated 40k FB groups they are very focused on anti trans activism and Trump worship, and smaller GB groups that are, worse.
There are also plenty of fine groups, or at least groups that put miniature photos firsts.
YouTube is similarly split between creepy Black Templar afficionados and channels more like my recent fav Shining Nathan
40k Brunch Gossip Episode 1 #warhammer40k
But you didn’t hear it from me.
40k is a pretty shit game to begin with, the painting and maybe the lore is the best part. Everything else, including collecting at those ridiculous prices is a joke.
They only people I know who play 40k are obsessed with Orks. Dunno what kind of person that makes them, but at least they aren’t nazis.
It might be the same phenomenon as bimbofication / puppygirl stuff, where one longs to be released from the responsibility of thinking