Da fuck is layoff season? Is that a real thing?
The CEO that managed to take GE from being the single most valuable technology company and turn it into a poorly performing stagnant mess popularized the idea of survival of the fittest within companies. He asserted that by cutting the bottom performers and even whole divisions regularly that it would leave a stronger, better company. He set targets to lay off the bottom 10% every year regardless of whether it was financially necessary.
In the short term, this strategy makes efficiency metrics look really good, and with good looking metrics, the stock goes up temporarily. However, there are major costs to layoffs that take months, years, and decades to materialize. Eventually, forced churn ruins the best of companies, from GE to IBM. Unfortunately, this management style is still incredibly popular amongst publicly traded companies. Most of the investors are willing to accept the eventual demise of a company if it means a decade of really good returns in the meantime.
In addition to what you said, laying off the bottom 10% performers gives your employees a conflict of interest. Now it’s better for them if their coworkers perform worse, and worse performing coworkers hurts the company. This may crop up in workers not helping each other out, or deliberately writing bad documentation.
It’s absolutely insane how big and important a company GE used to be compared to how trash they are now. Same with IBM, HP, Xerox, all those old tech companies. They didn’t fall to pieces because the new generation were just better, they were killed from within.
GE, for example, built a bunch of our early nuclear reactors.
They weren’t just great at technology, they were great to work for. My father worked for IBM in the 80’s and again in the 2000’s after they acquired the company he was working for. He said it was like two entirely different companies. The 80’s IBM cared about family, work/life balance, generous healthcare, had a pension. They were an engineering company that could solve any technical problem their customers could come up with. By the 2000’s IBM had become a sales and management company. They had software to give employees the bare minimum pay and benefits tailored to their zip code. They were succesfully sued for age discrimination. They successfully convinced my father that he had absolutely maxed out on salary amd would never make any more. His raises didn’t even match 3% inflation. He was laid off in the 2010’s after a decade and a half of exemplary performance.
Five years later his salary had doubled and he was loving working on novel projects again. It was wild too see how the corporate gaslighting had convinced him he didn’t deserve any better and was just lucky to have his job when in reality he was majorly underpaid and had very valuable and unique hardware design expertise. Getting laid off sucked but turned out to be one of the best things that could have happened to him.
My uncle worked at HP for the majority of his career and watched a very similar decline.
If the suits take over your engineering company, it’s time to start asking colleagues if their company is still engineering focused. Don’t stick around for the decline.
It is 100% a real thing. American tech companies go through this cycle where they over-hire (on purpose) and then later on they lay a bunch of people off to “cut costs” and appear “financially responsible”. This is also easier to manage (if you’re a lazy dipshit) because you don’t need to worry about your exact headcount so much, you can adjust later if you have too many or too few people. (It also gives a good excuse to get rid of people you don’t like but who would otherwise be very hard to fire.)
Investors eat that shit up.
Since companies tend to report earnings and things around the same time, companies engaging in this strategy all tend to lay people off at the same time.
All these companies playing the layoff game at the same time, destabilizing the lives of million of people and their family. Is there any report on the damage to the economy at a whole?
This is unthinkable in the EU. If a company isn’t sure about the needed force, they need to hire temps.
If you don’t have a technical or economical reason, you are not even allowed to lay off an employee.
And you have to give notice for a period, which is proportional to the time you worked for the company, or you have to pay this fully as severance and this can be more than a year.
Protected employees (voted as union representatives) are even harder to fire.
This does come with the downside that some, almost not productive, colleagues never get fired. But I guess it beats the alternative of having almost no protection.
The US companies claim they have economic reasons but really this is just part of a cycle that shareholders understand but companies hope employees will not.
They claim they’re fixing problems by firing people, but for the most part these are companies that are more profitable than ever.
There’s much less worker protection in the US, though. A lot of these companies have EU branches and I bet those EU branches are mostly left alone during these layoffs for that reason.
Not in most of Europe, because we have worker protection laws in place that disincentivize this type of behaviour (sometimes so much so, that critics say it makes the job market too “rigid”).
I got a huge severance package after only 1 year at my company. That’s because of labor laws im Canada. It equates to over a year in salary.
My US counterparts didn’t get that, not sure if that 35% applies to the US, but if it does it’s much more expensive everywhere else. And yeah, all this so it looks good on paper.
Labor laws vary by province and I don’t know of any labor law that makes it an obligation to pay over a year of salary after a year of employment, the most probable reason you got that is the employment directives/your employment contract you had with your previous employer.
It’s the law in almost every Canadian province for collective layoffs. 50-100 people is like 8 weeks, then 100-200 is 12 weeks and 200 plus is 16 weeks, or something. It’s on all the provinces labor law websites. My teammates in BC and Alberta got the same type of protections from what we discussed.
They had to pay out my stocks that would have vested if I kept my notice. Then because it was a mass layoff of more than a few hundred people they had to give me 16 weeks notice, plus my schedule and accrued vacation up until then and up until the notice period ends (in 16 weeks). Meaning the have to keep me on payroll with full benefits.
To sever that and entice me to hop off payroll and benefits, they gave me an addition 3 months pay. That gives me roughly my yearly salary.
Here is the law in Quebec
It equates to over a year in salary.
50-100 people is like 8 weeks, then 100-200 is 12 weeks and 200 plus is 16 weeks, or something
Yeah so there’s a difference between the two, right? Because in one case you’re including extra that your employer paid that not everyone is entitled to and in the other it’s what the law gives you right to if the notification period isn’t respected.
And again, labor laws are provincial in the vast majority of cases, only a couple of industries use federal laws. In any case, only one set of laws apply to you, federal laws can be less than what you’re entitled to if you were working in a job under provincial laws in your province of work.
It sounds like the company has cash and they’re trying to keep up morale. Over a year of severance for employees with less than a year of employment isn’t required by Canadian law that I know of^(not that I’m super knowledgeable about labour law).
90 days is pretty standard in the US, at least with bigger companies that have to abide by the WARN Act
I’m in Canada and my bank sent out the annual layoff season email about how there is support for me (in the form of a high interest loan).
Layoff season being thing should remind everyone why you should always do the minimum and why you should never have loyalty to an employer
Oh, then they might lay you off first because you’re underperforming compared to your peers.
I’ll let you in on a secret: they can’t tell. There’s absolutely no way to know how productive someone is. It’s a popularity contest with extra steps.
This is bullshit. There are dozens of ways to tell, even remote. Metrics exist for a reason.
You think they bother checking thousands of employees’ performances before laying them off? The only performance they check is who is better bud with management
Each manager probably have a few people in mind when their higher ups asks them to cut down head count in the department. Unless they decide to cut down the entire department of course. Then performance no longer matter.
Yeah… that’s probably sometimes true. But I also work in a tech company and holy fuck do we have a lot of dead weight.
That’s a management problem. Managers should be getting poor performers up to speed (or firing them). Dealing with it through layoffs juices the stock and makes investors think the company is LeAn
I think thats a (shocker) overly simplistic approach to the dynamic. Layoffs are never a good look - and we’ve had an unprecedented boom time in tech for the last 20 years.
Companies were hiring just so competitors couldn’t. That doesn’t really happen anymore outside of AI.
We had what felt like make-work jobs, some nice guy or gal that no one wanted to fire who was “involved” but literally not responsible for anything.
Broad layoffs in the industry gave everyone cover to make unpopular decisions because everyone is doing it.
I don’t think - at least the ones I saw directly - it was the wrong choice.
Layoffs are considered a good look by big shareholders, though. Most of the time when the layoffs hit, the stock price goes up. Just look at Unity for a recent example. (I’m convinced they don’t think it’s good for the company and they just like seeing people suffer but i have no evidence for that.)
I agree with you but boy, here in America, employees are disposable assets, not potentially highly useful and reliable experts worth any kind of actually useful investment in or training.
I know. And that’s not how it should be. I’ve had the privilege/luck of working in orgs where my management actually gave a shit and tried to do the best by their employees. If someone is struggling we do our best to get them back to performing or find them a position that works. I don’t think we’ve ever had to fire anyone.
Cutting an arbitrary 10% of people (or a few underperforming products) is absolute bullshit. It’s unfair to the employees because it doesn’t give them a chance to improve, and it’s unfair to customers because stuff they rely on disappears.
Unfortunately cuts don’t usually target the dead weight. I’ve worked in IT consulting for a while now, and cuts to consultants is always the first step. Just across the board, companies slash their consulting budgets blindly. Most of the time, we are leaving behind company critical systems to be supported by the “dead weight” people that couldn’t tell their ass from a hole in the ground.
I’m currently on an integrated team, meaning half our developers are consultants and half are regular employees. The consultants consistently put out significantly higher quality work in a fraction of the time. But as of Jan 1, we cut almost all of them. And as of June, we’re cutting the rest. What’s going to be left behind is half the number of people that will put out less than a quarter of the results than before.
But the reality is that consultants are easy to cut. You don’t have to call them layoffs or pay them severance.
And does the dead weight get cut during layoff season? Or does it affect people who are capable but won’t take bullshit from management?
I actually think we did a pretty good job - but our “layoff” was a mini one. Fractions of a percent. But of the people I knew, wasn’t worried about any of them. Felt bad for the people, they were all nice, but none of em were good at their jobs.
Quite a few sr directors and VPs were let go, or allowed to leave….
For me it finally did. A long time team member who in the past year probably had negative productivity was let go. Sucks for that person, but a big relief for everybody else.
Now this is Sweden where unions and labor laws are strong, so usually it’s difficult to fire long time employees like that.
I inherited a team when a manager left a nonprofit that I worked at. This was in the Netherlands, and in my earlier management training here we were basically told that the list of valid reasons to fire someone does not include poor performance.
Of the team, like 4 people were pretty good, a couple excellent, and two were basically dead weight. One even worse, because he was a constant source of negativity. I spent ages working on ways to figure out how to help, cajole, and otherwise magically somehow improve these two bad workers ability to contribute to our company.
Eventually in frustration I went to HR, and was like, “look at all this shit I’ve tried, what else can I do?” The head of HR was like, “Why did you waste so much time. We’ll fire them.” I was shocked, because I didn’t think that was possible! It turns out that there is always a way to fire someone. You have to give them severance pay, but better pay someone to leave than have them ruining morale for everyone.
I talked to one of the people I fired a couple of years later. He thanked me. He was working for Greenpeace at the time, and basically said that he felt trapped at a good paying job, and getting fired gave him motivation. I also ran into the negative guy, and he remains a worthless shit.
Anyway the point is that management should not rely on layoffs to sort out staff issues. Sort out your problems when you have them.
