FAQ

Q: why not organize and stop treating the bus as a legitimate entity? why aren’t you working to stop the bus?

A: do both. cut the fuel line. break windows. put oatmeal in the gas tank. but maybe your efforts don’t succeed this election cycle. and if so don’t fucking throw away your vote if it can help your neighbors fucking survive. “harm reduction” is not a political strategy for action. it is a last minute, end of the line decision to save lives, after all other resources have been exhausted.

122 points

ITT: people calling for revolution who will never do a damn thing about it. It’s easy to pretend violence is the answer when you’ll never participate, let alone start something.

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73 points

Way too many of these chucklefucks just want to LARP as pure and radical revolutionaries. My wife and I are disabled and live on a fixed income of her disability payments and the SNAP program. If this “revolution” they want so bad does come, then we’re among the most likely to just fucking starve in the disruption. I’m also one of the people the GOP declared they want to “Eradicate from Public Life” with Project 2025.

Now, I’m not much of a Genocide Enjoyer. I think it’s one of the worst things you can do in fact. But I also don’t take too kindly to being effectively told that I specifically should just die because these wannabe revolutionaries refuse to entertain a world where we both vote for Biden to keep Trump from destroying democracy more than the GOP already has (harm reduction), AND engage in direct action to push Biden away from blindly supporting Israel.

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6 points

Refusing to vote for a genocide supporter IS a form of direct activism.

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26 points

Ah yes. Direct action. Famously done by checks notes Not doing something. So brave.

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31 points
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Removed by mod
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42 points
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Not in America, but I’m trans and have a number of trans friends in the states who are really scared right now. I live in Australia and have participated in pro-Palestine protests (if that’s who you’re implying with that). I loathe Biden, I think he’s a shitty old white dude, and I wish y’all could do better. But if protesting against Biden allows Trump to be elected, then there WILL be far worse consequences, both domestically and abroad. Thousands of trans people will lose their lives, and countless more will lose access to life-saving care. He will likely cut off support to Ukraine considering how he’s ingratiated himself to Putin before. He hasn’t indicated he’d stop supporting Israel either.

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10 points

But if protesting against Biden allows Trump to be elected, then there WILL be far worse consequences

That’s 100% on Biden for being a legit protest target, not on the individuals with a moral compass who are pointing out his issues.

If we don’t want our non-fascist option to be protested against because it means they lose then there should be a better choice available

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27 points

What group of voters would be exterminated under Biden?

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8 points
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Removed by mod
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13 points

As if Trump wouldn’t exterminate them harder. With just the choice between these 2 candidates, I vote for the lesser genocider and then apply as much pressure as possible to lower that genocidey-ness even more. Short of a revolution, it’s the best we can do.

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24 points

And then they think they’ll be part of the vanguard when the power vacuum opens up, and will give way to a glorious socialist utopia. Guess what, turbo, you’ll be up against that wall too, and it’s just going to be roving gangs of authoritarians.

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18 points

Even if you assume those LARPers are willing to sacrifice themselves in bloody revolution for the good of the common folk…

Who do you think suffers most when civil war disrupts supply chains, essential services, and the legal system?

It’s the dang common folk they’re supposedly dying to protect!

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4 points

As easy as it is to vote, its even easier to whine about why not doing it is better(?) Maybe?

Then they come at u like theyre so very superior for not voting. Like theyre going to start a revolution by yelling at the people supposedly closest to them in ideology. Bc, clearly, voting is only done by libs, so if u advocate for voting ur a superlib. Then theyll simp for china or russia, and act like even neoliberal countries dont have leftist parties attempting to participate in the government theyre so keen on making u forsake.

Almost like theres a vested interest in there… somewhere…

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106 points
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My favorite morons ITT:

”Both options are cliffs!”

Yeah because the guy promising to end democracy and bring about Christian nationalism is exactly the same as the moderate we have now. I hope you’re getting paid to be that stupid.

”I won’t vote to support genocide!”

At the end of the day someone becomes president, and spoiler alert the other option is still worse. It’s cute you think your principles are more important than the safety and security of at-risk groups domestically (and frankly abroad as well). Short-sighted and idiotic.

”We might not even get ice cream!”

Okay well organize and protest that after we’ve avoided the cliff.

”Haha Americans are stupid for the entrenched political system that they find themselves in”

Hope you enjoy your five minutes of smugness, because a Christian nationalist USA doesn’t benefit anyone in the world in the long run.

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35 points

a lot of the individuals ITT are here in good faith i believe. i’m more trying to get meaningful change to happen than sow discord by calling them morons.

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19 points

You, i like you

c:

Ive gotten righty whities to agree with me on all sorts of wild leftist ideas, its about finding the angle and humanizing the problem.

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14 points
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A-fuckin-goddamn-men.

You need to communicate with people. Berating them is entirely self serving. No one ever said “you know what? I am a moron, thanks for pointing out my worldview is entirely wrong and I’m an asshole in those exact words.”

You can get people to realize they’re wrong, but calling them names is exactly the wrong way to do it.

I say “talk to a conservative in conservative language” and they’ll understand you. Avoid “trigger” words like redistribution, socialism, LGBT+, etc… use words like “Liberty, freedom of expression, government overreach (when discussing infringement of LGBT+ rights) etc…”

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12 points

i feel like sometimes people forget the little username in their phone represents a living breathing life that may or may not have had breakfast this morning :(

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13 points

I hear you and I appreciate what you’re trying to do here, though I am skeptical that these people actually are coming here in good faith.

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18 points

”Both options are cliffs!”

But they are though.

The cliff drivers aren’t getting off the bus, even if we vote them down this time, if we don’t change the system that allows them equal opportunity to drive us off a cliff they will eventually force it off the cliff.

Biden has long supported the system that allows it, prides himself on being able to find a middle ground with them, and though he talks about not going over the cliff has no long term plan for dealing with those that do, because again he believes in the system that allows them to want to drive off the cliff.

I believe I’ve stretched this metaphor about as far as it will go, but I’m going to try stretching it further.

There are actually two cliffs, fascism and climate change, even if we pull the bus away from one cliff we’ve still got the other in front of us and basically no one is even pretending to deal with that.

And to leave the broken bus scenario, I’m just going to say if you believe that a trump win will destroy American democracy, that we can’t defeat his corrupt, senile version of fascism then the next republican demagogue will have no problems.

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13 points

There are actually two cliffs

Yeah, and Trump is going to drive you off of both.

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2 points

If you think that trump is capable of that then you admit the American system is so flawed that a diaper wearing dementia ridden criminal is all it will take to bring it down. That Pax Americana is on the death bed and electing Biden is just kicking the can down the road.

Without the looming existential threat of the climate apocalypse and the inevitability of children born today fighting in the water wars, Biden might be fine, but we need action now and anything else isn’t just lesser of two evils, it’s complete failure in our lifetimes…

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11 points

People keep acting like we have forever to make change. Meanwhile we are in the midst of a literal climate crisis, and people are literally starving to death with the help of U.S. dollars.

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13 points
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That Christian Nationalist USA is already present. It’s emboldening is inevitable due to the inaction from Democrats and especially Biden: the alleged “moderate” president.

Biden is also actively arming a genocide in Gaza. A move I would say is extremely far from moderate in any position. Trump is a horrible choice for president. It was true in 2016 and it’s true now. But if Biden refuses to do even the barest of minimums to defeat him in an election what does that say about Biden?

So sure, call it smugness, call it idiotic or whatever bullshit; continue to vilify those tired of voting for bullshit candidates and inaction. I’m sure that will help prove your point; as Biden does literally nothing to combat any of increasingly tense situations rising in the US under his tenure.

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24 points

Please don’t misunderstand me: I’m not thrilled about the situation either.

But I’m also not going to coddle anyone that thinks making things significantly worse for untold millions to maintain some kind of ideological purity makes them somehow superior or less culpable.

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8 points

I wouldn’t water opposing genocide down to “ideological purity”. It’s opposing genocide, and that’s objectively right every time.

And that’s before getting into Joe’s inaction on pretty much any important issues during his term. If Trump wins the 2024 election then outside of the GOP that’s entirely on Joe Biden for failing to oppose genocide and run any sort of compelling administration.

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9 points

you can do so much more to defeat the reactionaries by visiting:

  • a gym
  • a shooting range
  • a library
  • your local revolutionary organization’s meeting

than a polling station

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16 points

It’s so weird to see it framed as an either/or. Voting is the absolute bare minimum you can do to participate. So yeah go vote, and also organize your friends and network with like minded people around you and work towards the change you want. I doubt any of the ideologically pure abstainers here have even ever turned out to vote much less actually worked on a campaign.

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2 points

People frame it as an either/or because the reality is that voting doesn’t hold the personal power you think it does.

Due to how our elections work your vote just might be worthless. Add on all of the other issues at hand, and the prospective of voting is absolutely depressing for some of us.

This still doesn’t really make it an either/or situation, but one situation gives you the ability to potentially make a positive difference in the world, whereas the other, not so much.

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1 point
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Lemme tell you a story. In the last parliamentary election in Poland in October we had a record high turnout of 73% or so. This only emboldened the liberals and the pseudo-left to introduce lower health insurance contributions for the capitalists and tax breaks for IT sector but lift the food VAT cancellation despite some product categories still being affected by an inflation rate of up to 20% and gas and electricity prices freeze. Which is actually being justified by the “socdem” ruling triumvirate partner instead of them standing against it. But ig for them idpol matters much more than standing for poor people. Then they’re fucking surprised they vote for social conservatives. Just like many Trump voters who are not right-wing extremists but just disillusioned proletarians with false consciousness.

Recently state TV invited fucking landlords to discuss how to deal with non-paying tenants to a morning TV. On the contrary, the so hated social conservative PiS government has at least managed to introduce a vacant property tax. Now under the glorious liberal regime we can expect the rent to still gobble up more than a half of a large part of the population’s salary. Yay! So progressive, so European, so democratic! 🥰🎉✌️

Women’s rights were the hallmark of their campaign, but we still have one of the most barbaric laws regarding abortion and emergency contraception access in Europe due to the centre-right coalition partner torpedoing any change in this respect – hey, how is doing anything about Roe v. Wade being overturned going?

Also militarism. Both of them (Biden and Trump) will waste massive amounts of taxpayer and printed money on producing fucking scrap metal death machines. But Biden is actually more hawkish. In Poland we are already spending 4% of our GDP (twice the NATO target!) on that and in the past few years it increased by like 260%. All of this despite Russia actually virtually not increasing it’s military spending and incessant media reports about how they are using 50 year old equipment in Ukraine.

So many people fell totally duped in Poland right now, and rightly so. Now the hope lies in the streets, in the radicalization of women’s protests and gathering storm for a strike wave. Government of the rich, for the rich won’t do shit for the working class unless they feel fear. Luckily the farmers’ protests have shown the way to go.

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9 points

The problem is that “moderates” are very conservative and fascist-leaning as well. The Biden administration is still funding genocide, still turning away asylum-seeking migrants, hell Biden hasn’t even followed through on releasing prisoners convicted of marijuana convictions.

And people ARE protesting now, but not as much as under Trump, and these things haven’t changed. Biden allows barely engaged liberals to think everything is okay, but Biden is still AWFUL he just has better optics to liberals.

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19 points

Trump is literally a fascist. You’re damn right Biden has better optics…because he isn’t a fascist. So who are you voting for then?

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4 points

Biden is also a fascist, he’s just not proud about it

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12 points

Yeah, I agree that it’s a shit situation and an undesirable choice. But the unfortunate political reality we currently live in is that it’s either Biden or Trump.

Yes, the Biden administration is supplying weapons to Israel that are being used for genocide. Trump has commented that Israel needs to “finish the problem.”

Yes, the Biden administration is turning away asylum seekers on our southern border. Trump has said that migrants are “poisoning the blood” of our nation.

I challenge your last point regarding marijuana convictions: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/06/statement-from-president-biden-on-marijuana-reform/

But I will again will contrast that Trump rescinded the Obama-era policy of not pursuing marijuana charges at the federal level in states where it was legal. A clear and significant step backward.

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10 points

Here’s the fucking frighting thing, the moderates I know(relatives mostly) hate Biden because of the price of gas and groceries, that he isn’t killing everyone trying to cross the southern border, and believe Trump will be better for America in these crazy times. It’s fucking depressing to hear

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5 points

This is what I’m saying - the moderates fucking suck and it’s not worth trying to win them over. Move the party left, the zombified vote-blue-no-matter-who Democrats will vote for a more leftist candidate just like they vote for a more moderate candidate.

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79 points
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This analogy is so absurd. Like if you have a vote on driving off a cliff, the answer is not to treat the vote as legitimate. The answer is to attempt to stop the bus by any means necessary. Pry open the engine panel and chuck a wrench in the gears, cut the fuel line, break the shifter lever, anything, just get off the fucking bus. Neither driver should be trusted.

EDIT: I am sick of hearing “WHY WON’T YOU VOTE THO”

First of all, I already said this:

The only reason to vote for the less-immediate cliff driver is to give you more time to stop the bus.

That’s the other problem with this post: the non-voter is a strawman. Most people with real critiques of the bus vote too because they understand this. Voting barely matters for the most part but you may as well do it. Most people yelling about “don’t vote it’s pointless” are like 15 years old doing baby’s first radical politics.

I just don’t understand why every time we criticise the bus we have to deal with loads of people yelling about why we don’t take the voting more seriously, as if who we vote for is the bigger issue than the fact that we’re stuck on a careening death machine with a bunch of people calmly debating how fast we should all die.

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66 points

I think the answer to this is: so, what are you doing to stop the bus from going over the cliff that’s better than voting? And can’t you do both of them?

Because usually people aren’t doing much else. Especially anything effective. They’re just not voting.

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20 points
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This comment is why you’re getting this spiel, because you need to understand something:

They’re just not voting.

The people who don’t vote are usually the most disenfranchised people, living paycheck to paycheck, stuck in survival mode, and they don’t care who’s in charge because they’ve noticed through hard lessons that they keep getting screwed no matter what. Also often they can’t vote because they can’t get off work. They’re not terminally online yelling at people not to vote, those are probably mostly kids doing baby’s first radical politics.

The sad reality is that electoral politics has a cold calculus to it where they’ve got the populace cut into rough thirds. About a third are susceptible to full on fascist propaganda and cannot currently be reached. Another third vote centre-left because they usually understand it’s their only reasonable vote. Very few of them are actively engaged because it is a deeply disempowering system. Another third are who I mentioned.

That’s not going to change just because you correctly debated with me about voting. I vote as far left as I meaningfully can, I just don’t think it really matters and I think both psychologically and practically the faster people learn that the better.

I think understanding reality is much more important, and I think the fact that this insane bus analogy gets accepted paints a grim picture of how fucked up the electoral system really is. I also think it’s wrong about the stakes - it’s not cliff or icecream. It’s cliff or slower cliff. Vote for the slower cliff, but don’t ever mistake the drivers for your friends. You are voting for your preferred enemy.

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10 points
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I don’t think the third are the ones who have power fantasies about them not voting but rather just people who don’t bother. So they’re not the ones I was talking about.

I’m talking about the ones who are so proud of their principled take of not voting and telling others how that doesn’t change the system and how the actual change happens through other means. And then the other means they are doing are maybe some complaints on social media, which is just lol.

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2 points

But maaaan, if we all, like, protest vote, they’ll have to change the system because they, like, knew what it meant when we chose to not participate in their broken system, man.

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46 points
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bro. do both.

cut the fuel line. break windows. put oatmeal in the gas tank.

but maybe your efforts don’t succeed this election cycle. and if so don’t fucking throw away your vote if it can help your neighbors fucking survive.

“harm reduction” is not a political strategy for action. it is a last minute, end of the line decision to save lives, after all other resources have been exhausted.

in response to your edit:

“the non-voter is a strawman.”

objectively false. in the 2020 election more eligible US voters turned out than any election in recent history, and still those who did not vote outnumbered those who voted for the winner. you are saying falsehoods.

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29 points

Bless you for this comment.

How many commenters here have even tried to figure out how ‘busses’ (the electoral process) work and find a way to get involved?

Spend 5 hours a week (yes, you can find the time, deduct it from your screen time!) and you could basically take over your local party committee. That alone won’t change the national trend, but you might just be able to influence a city council or school board race.

Local races hinge on a handful of votes very often. In our area, we managed to keep two anti-LGBTQ+ candidates off the school board last election. This impacts the lives of literally thousands of youth and their families and it hinged on about 80 votes. Vote, yes, but at least skim the Chilton manual for your bus in between elections. It really does matter

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2 points

If it’s so easy have to actually tried giving time to a campaign and having it win and change your local policy?

Have you done what you preach?

I have tried. The super easy barely an effort easy win of showing up and supported by my picks… Didn’t work. Like at all. The DNC in fact even refused to acknowledge half my candidates even though they had more grassroots support, and then funded former Republicans. In a blue city, they still thought the conservative options were better candidates. And lost. We all lost. But sure we held back some morons from school board. But stopping a couple people from getting elected is way different than getting policy makers you want in.

I agree that people need to be doing things but thinking a few hours and shouting at people to vote blue will do anything against the bigger systemic issues and flaws of the operating class of the DNC being happy to be useless then you are far more comfortable in your life than people like me.

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4 points

The people who don’t vote are usually the most disenfranchised people, living paycheck to paycheck, stuck in survival mode, and they don’t care who’s in charge because they’ve noticed through hard lessons that they keep getting screwed no matter what. Also often they can’t vote because they can’t get off work. They’re not terminally online yelling at people not to vote, those are probably mostly kids doing baby’s first radical politics.

The sad reality is that electoral politics has a cold calculus to it where they’ve got the populace cut into rough thirds. About a third are susceptible to full on fascist propaganda and cannot currently be reached. Another third vote centre-left because they usually understand it’s their only reasonable vote. Very few of them are actively engaged because it is a deeply disempowering system. Another third are who I mentioned.

That’s not going to change just because you correctly debated with me about voting. I vote as far left as I meaningfully can, I just don’t think it really matters and I think both psychologically and practically the faster people learn that the better.

I think understanding reality is much more important, and I think the fact that this insane bus analogy gets accepted paints a grim picture of how fucked up the electoral system really is. I also think it’s wrong about the stakes - it’s not cliff or icecream. It’s cliff or slower cliff. Vote for the slower cliff, but don’t ever mistake the drivers for your friends. You are voting for your preferred enemy.

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2 points

Yeah. I don’t envy nor blame those who vote for the biggest crash because they think their suffering will be over without having considered the suffering that will just be new.

People often just want change and those that don’t are just comfortable where they are. The slow route might be nicer for them but and even for others in the long run, but it doesn’t matter what they want change will have to come, they can just be proactive about it or let it be out of their control and in the hands of those that just want it to stop.

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22 points

My logic is what about vote and pry the bus apart? If you have the option to might as well go for it as part of the ‘any means necessary’, a tool is a tool.

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6 points

I don’t know why everytime I try to say that we should stop this bus half the passengers jump up and yell “BUT WHY WOULDN’T YOU VOTE”.

I never said that. I said the vote is illegitimate and we need to stop the bus. I still vote.

stop the bus != don’t vote

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13 points

In Australia we only have two options in the lower house. One of them is pretty close to driving off a cliff.

Things could always be better (I personally find with their recent car emissions legislation a bit weak) but our current government is doing OK.

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7 points

Our current government is mediocre as shit and does nothing to fix anything. We take 5 steps towards the edge of the cliff each time Liberal get in and two steps forward and half a step back when Labor do. The end result is we’re going over the cliff, just in slow motion.

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2 points

Same as the centre-left options all over the world. They are little more than controlled opposition designed to give the illusion of choice, but never actually challenge the status quo.

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13 points

Alright, so what do you do to overthrow the system then? Nothing, that’s right. Screw you.

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4 points

Oh okay, sorry, I had a whole political activist strategy that takes local action and builds on that to make people’s lives better and eventually put serious pressure on the overarching system, but since you said “nothing”, I guess the answer is “nothing”.

I mean you’re wrong, but you don’t sound like you want to hear the real answer.

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9 points
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Wouldn’t cutting the brake lines of a moving bus be really dangerous? Why not vote for ice cream, then sabotage the bus while it’s parked? At least the ice cream place has food, shelter, and a bathroom.

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6 points
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*brake

Also:

cut the fuel line

You might want to brush up on your mechanics knowledge. Cutting a fuel line will kill an engine fast.

And I never said not to vote. This idea that anyone trying to criticise the system is saying not to vote is a strawman. I literally said:

The only reason to vote for the less-immediate cliff driver is to give you more time to stop the bus.

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6 points

The thing is, doing that is a great way to lose credibility. You’re basically sinking to the same level as the fascists.

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28 points

Anti fascist sabotage is bad because violence, hmm 🧐

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8 points

As long as you don’t physically harm people, sabotage all the fascists you want. Just remember to vote.

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18 points
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Oh because of the violence? Driving off a cliff is also violent behaviour, and with the bus as it is the cliff is inevitable, because the cliff drivers will always get back in. Also, the other guy isn’t the icecream guy. He’s the guy who promised to stop for icecream but doesn’t want to tell you if or how fast he plans to drive off the cliff. He’s open to debate on the issue, but he has a lot cliff driving friends and they often cast the deciding vote in cliff driving matters.

They’re both getting us off the cliff, just one is being more coy and circumspect than the other.

The only reason to vote for the less-immediate cliff driver is to give you more time to stop the bus.

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8 points

Let me know when you start the violence. It’s easy as fuck to sit behind your iphone calling others to die.

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10 points

Except, it’s not an attempt to end democracy, as fascism is.

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5 points

disagree

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2 points

Extremism is how you start a civil war…

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4 points

damn, people really can’t read, huh?

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4 points

I think it’s selective misunderstanding. Dealing with the knowledge that voting won’t really achieve much is super uncomfortable, so they’d rather pretend that you said “don’t vote” so they don’t have to think about what you really said.

Another way is pretending that you don’t actually mean it. Stopping the bus seems impossible to them, so they assume you must not actually be doing anything about it, but that’s wrong too. It’s just most people think of revolution in terms of storming the Bastille or whatever, they don’t realise that most of the work is constant, basic, on the ground, building mutual aid networks, because in a world where people starve because they don’t have enough money, feeding people is a radical act.

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74 points

If I have to read one more both sides are terrible “take” that encourages voter apathy I’m going to lose my mind. Vote, people I don’t care who you vote for but you have to vote because apathy is how we get fascism.

Do something rather than just throwing a piss fit and encouraging others to do nothing.

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20 points

Vote, people I don’t care who you vote for but you have to vote because apathy is how we get fascism.

Nervous German laughter

We will probably get fascism with our next federal state’s election, since AFD is projected to win by far more votes than any other party. Whelp.

I’ve met a young mom who, while not voting for AFD itself, does hope they will win the election because “then the voters will finally get heard and we also get to see what the party actually wants to implement, otherwise it’s just big talk but it’s interesting to see what they would do once they are in power.” …Can we not find out please? I hope it would just be big talk but I really don’t care to find out. I am superwhite but I don’t have a German passport and I don’t want to know.

But back to the actual topic, I absolutely agree with you and not voting is always, always a bad idea. Hell, not two weeks ago I went to Berlin, paid for a hotel and stood in a long line to vote for the rigged elections in Russia. I know my voice will not be heard and it still felt imperative. Please, please go vote if you’re in the USA ( - or anywhere where your voice will actually at least be counted). I hate to say it but our future also depends on what your country decides.

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15 points
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Oh yeah it’s not foolproof you absolutely still can have people vote against their interests but encouraging apathy doesn’t fix that

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15 points

I guess it depends on the country, but here in France, our last two presidential elections were about choosing how fast fascism would come.

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13 points

Not very versed in French politics but I imagine the fight to maintain democracy is difficult regardless of country. No matter how bad the choice gets though, not making it isn’t the answer.

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15 points
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16 points

Burn both parties to the ground and bar them all from holding office ever again.

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15 points

At least this would be doing something, you have my support.

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9 points
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3 points
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8 points

Both texts in screenshot are agruments against apathy

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13 points

This was a response to the comments.

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6 points

D- does that mean youve still a mind? C-c- could we m-maybe sh-share?

Cuz I feel like itd come in handy when the foreign shills show up to tell me all about why the problem you just described is ackswallee not here on lemmy at all… i guess we just that special.

Good to see the sane comments up top, but still.

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This is a long established problem with FPTP voting (FPTP = First Past The Post: One voter = one vote). You don’t really get to vote for your choice candidate, rather you vote against the worst of the two popular candidates by voting for the other guy.

Now there are plenty of election reform solutions, but in the US, both parties are weakened by the people having more choice, so neither party is willing to back amendments to the Constitution of the United States that would install a more public serving voting system.

This also means, according to CIA analysts who have studied nations on the brink and how they can avoid civil war, the US is very likely to see a civil war in its near future (next decade). But then we’re also likely to see elections neutered anyway, so that the Republican party controls all elected positions (and appointed ones after that). And then local genocides can get underway.

So yes, if you’re voting to make a point (other than you want the Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025 to play out or want to delay it for a while) the point won’t be heard. In fact, the Republicans and their foreign national propaganda machine supporters are probably very glad you’re willing to withhold blue votes to make a point. It won’t make that point, but they’re glad for you for trying.

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13 points

i don’t disagree but this is also a long established problem with people not showing up to vote, so jot that down.

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Taking a wild guess here, I suspect people not voting comes from a number of addressable causes. Here in the States, we are far more enamored with capitalism than Democracy, and the way we regard our civic duties (e.g. trying to get out of jury duty, mostly due to the hardship it would cause by skipping work without pay). We work our labor class so hard they are too exhausted to parent, cook or engage in health activities, much less engage in civics. It doesn’t help that this is exactly how our plutocratic masters want it.

After we address allowing people the time to think about what they want from government, and voting accordingly, then we can start looking into giving the people actual agency in their destinies, toward which election reform is only one front.

But all this is to say the United States doesn’t really try very hard to get the people to engage in civics. Rather, it would really prefer that we lie down and let ourselves be ruled by the wealthy according to their ideals and business interests. That, of course, brings us back to the same problems feudalism has: one Joffrey or Caligula or John of England / Richard II can bring to ruin all that a dozen prior generations have built up. Even Charles III is living up to the traditional standards of monarchy, and the UK has a parliament and a constitution with which to keep his shenanigans in check. (Parliament is up to its own shenanigans to turn the UK hardline fascist, but that’s another discussion.)

In elementary school government and western civilization class, we learn that we vote so that the government does what we want it to. But we quickly learn (sometimes as soon as intermediate or high-school) that our agency in selecting our government is very, very limited, and historian careers have been built on the corruption of government into an oligarchy with trivial democratic features.

Except right now, those trivial democratic features are the last line of defense between the two party state and a one-party autocracy. It’s a state of affairs that shows not only did we take a wrong turn, but we’re on a fast train to somewhere we never should have gone. Curiously, the never-Trump conservatives have been pouring billions into the proverbial railroad that lead us to Trump and the next line of Musolinni-wannabe strongman dictators. They didn’t just buy the ticket, but laid the rails.

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2 points
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6 points

As much as you really fucking hate to hear it: Biden won both his primaries handedly. The only way Bernie had a shot is if they clowncarred it too long like the Republican nomination that led to Trump. The DNC did not drop the ball, the American voters chose Biden.

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The Democratic Party chose Biden, what was a tactical choice. The DNC uses FPTP for its primary as well (then has a list of 2000 principal party members whose votes are given additional weight. The DNC is a far right coalition party that still is guided by the interests of its monied contributors. But since the 1980s we’ve only been allowed to choose between them and the Christian Nationalist monsters.

Even after Occasio-Cortez won her primary, the DNC and DCCC changed their policy to prevent young upstarts like her from pushing aside establishment Democrat candidates. (Some of those policy changes were reversed due to pressure, but still the Democratic party is not interested in serving the public.)

How do we get a public-serving government? Dunno. Some say supporting our community mutual-aid organizations will help. (It will, actually) but in more contentious states law enforcement are looking for ways to harass and arrest mutual aid organizations, even for doing benign things like feeding the homeless. Civil war will lose the plot quickly, and will end up (typically) in a string of dictatorships, each overthrown by the next until everyone is related to casualties of war and are just plum tired of fighting, and we might get a democratic election out of it if we can fend off all the foreign influencers trying to pressure their puppets into power.

There are a few active anarcho-communist coalitions out there doing their thing, but they are continuously attacked by plutocrat financed militants and mischief-makers looking to make an example of them much like FBI’s assassination campaign on the Black Panthers. We humans may just be too easily tempted by corruption to create a functional public-serving government that doesn’t depend on a labor caste. (But do please keep working on it!)

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1 point
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1 point

Wrong. Democrats consistently support & pass RCV, while Republicans repeal & ban it. If you want RCV, you need to support Dems in the meantime.

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1 point

What is your source for the CIA analysts/brink of civil war claim?

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A PBS interview of retired analysts who’d spent their life studying regions of civil unrest and the conditions that lead to civil war. It was since the Biden administration began so it shouldn’t be too hard to hunt down.

As for the neutered elections, this had been part of the Republican project REDMAP, but is laid out in the Heritage Foundation Project 2025 as well.

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1 point

And RCV (ranked choice voting) isn’t really that much better. It has potential to be better if everyone voted honestly, but voting is a game.

STAR (score then automatic runoff) is the best we can feasibly achieve. It’s easy to teach and our current voting systems can account for this with little to no update (unlike RCV). Please look into star and push for this locally, then we can get this on a state by state basis.

https://www.starvoting.org

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