And then we have mass worker revolts to seize the means of production in these countries right? Right?

Woulda been funny. Not just for the obvious benefit of having an uprising and potential revolution in Europe, but also to see how genuine those “red millionaires” are about socialism with Chinese characteristics

A bit nitpicky, but the idea behind SWCC isn’t that the Capialists in the PRC are “the people’s Capitalists” or anything, but that the State as a DotP allows market competition in a controlled manner similar to a birdcage. As these markets form monopolist syndicates, they centralize, and socialize, by which point the CPC increases public owership. Communism is achieved by degree, not by decree. Trying to achieve Communism through fiat has historically resulted in struggles and difficulties.

I recommend reading Socialism Developed China, Not Capitalism for an overview of what that entails.

I also recommend The East is Still Red - Chinese Socialism in the 21st Century by Carlos Martinez, it does a great job of dispelling common myths about China and it’s economy, foreign policy, etc with solid sources through a solidly materialist lens.

yeah, won’t someone think of the oligarchs for once???

I think about them all the time actually.

Won’t someone think of the poor, innocent Capitalists?

You’re asking for people to be empathetic to an enemy on the internet. Good fucking luck with that. In real life I hope the people who call for violent revolution are just blowing off some steam and aren’t actually advocating for the wonton destruction of uncountable lives. Like you I’m concerned they’re not, but I’ve learned that there’s no room for nuance online.

Which is why to everyone else I’m saying this, just because I said I don’t want an enormous number of people to die, doesn’t mean that I don’t want to see capitalism fall. I just don’t want to commit a Holocaust doing it. Now go ahead and downvote me now.

Never said without, only said not too much.

“The very concept of “revolutionary violence” is somewhat falsely cast, since most of the violence comes from those who attempt to prevent reform, not from those struggling for reform. By focusing on the violent rebellions of the downtrodden, we overlook the much greater repressive force and violence utilized by the ruling oligarchs to maintain the status quo, including armed attacks against peaceful demonstrations, mass arrests, torture, destruction of opposition organizations, suppression of dissident publications, death squad assassinations, the extermination of whole villages, and the like.”

-Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds

Revolution has saved countless lives the world over, to denounce revolution without denouncing the incredible violence of the status quo is anti-Leftism.

Okay, so I never said never use violence or to just accept the status quo. Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m not so nieve that I think any real change won’t happen without a lot of violence. Violence is distasteful and should be avoided, but is also sometimes necessary. If King Louis’ head didn’t get chopped off, I would probably have been born a literal serf instead of a modern version of one. If the oligarchs of today lost their heads I wouldn’t feel a thing, when they bite the dust I don’t. I just think the conversation on lemmy.ml needs to take a pause and think for a second. Cause it seems to me that many people here want to kill everyone who is higher up on the social ladder than they are. That just perpetrates the endless cycle of violence, it doesn’t make a better world.

Sure the world would be better without Jeff Bezos, or Elon Musk, or many others. I’ve read discussions people seemed to take seriously suggesting that millions to tens of millions of people in their country deserve to die. Apparently saying don’t kill people with complete disregard for the importance of life is a bridge too far for this part of the internet.

Cause it seems to me that many people here want to kill everyone who is higher up on the social ladder than they are

Can you explain? This doesn’t seem to be the case at all. Maybe it’s just that I’m a Marxist-Leninist and understand what other Marxists are getting at better.

I’ve read discussions people seemed to take seriously suggesting that millions to tens of millions of people in their country deserve to die

Do you have an example?

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