Comment by Dagwood222@lemm.ee on They're Never Happy

Thanks for proving my point.

I ask for one simple thing; a candidate that I can support. You couldn’t do that one tiny thing.

Why don’t you try actually listening to what people want instead of telling them what they should do?

If electoralism will not establish Socialism, what is the point of recommending a candidate? The best candidate you can vote for is Claudia De La Crúz, but she can’t get 270 votes to win, because she isn’t on enough state’s ballots. Stein will not establish Socialism, she’s a Social Democrat, and Harris is firmly right-wing. Trump is Trump, obviously he isn’t the answer either.

Your desire for a simple “vote for this person and everything will be alright” does not exist.

You keep on proving my point.

De La Cruz is unknown to 99.999% of the voters.

AOC, a NY Congress member is known to almost all voters. Everyone has heard of the Squad.

I’ve watched Socialists/Communists talk about the revolution since I was in middle school, and it’s always “just around the corner.”

Like I said, why not try to get some people elected in the next cycle?

Because electoralism cannot establish Socialism. The Squad are not Socialists, they are Social Democrats. The only Socialist you can vote for is Claudia De La Crúz, and she cannot win because she cannot get 270 votes.

I am not “proving your point,” it is physically impossible to do what you’re suggesting.

Guess what? 99.9% of the people in the country would be happy with having FDR’s New Deal back in place.

Again, you prove my point. You’d rather dream about an ideal Socialist state then work to make things better right now.

They aren’t dreaming, they laid out very clearly what they believe and how they believe it can be achieved.

You just keep saying “I’m rubber, you’re glue”.

What’s your actual point? That you think the person you are replying to is stupid? That would say more about you than them in my opinion.

how they believe it can be achieved.

that’s the part I’m missing.

Like I said, I’ve been hearing people talk about this giant change for years, and never seen anything like an advance.

Meanwhile there are more billionaires every day, and they are getting more entrenched.

If there’s an actual workable plan I’ve yet to see it.

And yet Bernie, promising FDR style reform, did not get elected, nor would that stop fascism, just delay it. I am telling you that the way forward requires revolution. This isn’t because of an “ideal,” but because mechanically it is the only way forward.

The thing is there is nothing actionable at all in that rhetoric. There’s a lot of Marxist jargon and a lament that voting can never work, but the only guidance is “establish socialism” with no suggested actionable moves because we can’t just wave a wand and make that the case. If you can’t envision and recommend a democratic strategy to get there, you aren’t going to get anywhere near your objectives.

The answer is to join revolutionary orgs like the Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL) or Freedom Road Socialist Organization (FRSO). Only through organization outside the electoral system does the Proletariat have any hope of steering the ship and seizing the reigns.

There is no electoral strategy to get to Socialism because it’s nearly impossible, just like asking the board of directors to hand the reigns of the company to you.

You advocate for letting others chose the government while just sitting out and protesting and hoping the people formally being given power by the voting system you say not to meaningfully participate in would heed those protests?

Or are you saying that such groups shall go beyond their stated methods and go to violent revolution, in which scenario I’d ask for a single example of “socialism” achieved through such ends that didn’t install a pretty terrible authitarian regime that merely took advantage of social unrest to seize power?

I am saying there is no electoral path to Socialism.

As for Socialism’s historical record, I suggest you read Blackshirts and Reds. Cuba, China, Russia, etc. all dramatically improved conditions for the people following revolution as compared to the fascist slaver Batista regime, the nationalist Kuomintang regime, and the brutal Tsarist regime.

I am saying there is no electoral path to Socialism.

That smells of voter suppression, like you are trying to talk people out of even trying to exercise their voice in the political system. The refusal to specifically spell out which described path you advocate for suggests you want violent insurrection, which is absurd, either doomed to be outgunned or doomed to be exploited by leaders with ulterior motives. If you can’t get the votes to your position, then things are going to be very bad if you try to get your way.

None of your examples started from a vaguely functional democratic state. For all the fawning over Cuba, somehow they are a big source of refugees. The Soviet Union fell apart under well understood conditions that their flavor of ‘communism’ did not fix. China has an awful lot of forced labor, laborers stuck dorming in factories, and capitalist billionaires for a ‘communist’ state, and they have an ethno state with some other problematic human rights behaviors. While they may have been better than prior regimes in their contexts, I don’t think the end state in any of those is better than the current state of affairs in the US.

The answer is to join revolutionary org

Why? When is the revolution going to happen? Where and when are we supposed to gather?

I already answered the why. The where and when depends on organization, right now orgs aren’t as strong as they need to be, hence the importance of joining. The where is wherever your local org gathers, the when is whenever they meet and based on what they need you to do.

These organizations have been around for decades, yes? Seems like there’s never going to be a when.

Take your own advice chump

What a smart way to build a powerful alliance.

Attack someone who posts anything critical instead of even trying to engage.

Do you ever look in a mirror?

Take your own advice chump

If you think that’s a terrible attack, blame Mellow Yella 13, who I was responding to.

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