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29 points
*

welcomed across the border

In a non-apartheid state, you wouldn’t have to ask and there wouldn’t be a border based on your religion. They literally control their movement between zones, and getting permits takes months. It’s text book apartheid.

Just look up the marriage laws in Israel.

*Edit because I was being rude.

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-17 points

In a non-apartheid state, you wouldn’t have to ask and there wouldn’t be a border based on your religion. They literally control their movement between zones, and getting permits takes months. It’s text book apartheid.

Have you ever tried living and working in another country before? Because this is literally what you have to do everywhere.

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13 points

another country

Interesting terminology.

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3 points
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So when the National Party government in South Africa imposed restrictions on travel between made-up areas that basically nobody else in the world recognized as separate countries, that was also not apartheid?

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-22 points

The border isn’t based on religion. Gaza strip is not part of Israel.

The reason it’s 99% Muslims is because they murdered everyone else.

If you want to cross between countries you have to go through a border check. Like I can’t just go visit the USA without getting visa first.

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12 points

Although I think Palestine should be an independant country, if it was not part of the apartheid state of israel, they would have full control over their own borders.

It is not the same as a border check specifically since it’s part of the same country, hence why Israel is an apartheid state.

You both are really close to understanding the problem here, you just have to dig a bit deeper.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_freedom_of_movement#:~:text=Israel enforces restrictions on the,usage of roads by Palestinians.

Read this whole article, and actually read it for real, don’t skim it and pretend. It’s insane to compare it to any kind of international border because it simply isn’t.

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-11 points

Gaza strip was part of Egypt till the six days war. Egypt refused to take it back. Israel refused to pass law expending their border to include Gaza strip and in 2005 made it illegal for their citizens be stay there.

What in this chain of events makes you think they are the same country?

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4 points
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Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.

It is not ‘99% Muslim because they murdered everyone else’ that’s an insane racist lie. Read Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History by Nur Masalha

De-development via the Gaza Occupation

Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

  • Page 105

Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.

  • page 240

In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

  • Page 402

  • The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

Blockade, including Aid

Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

Peace Process and Solution

Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

Human Shields

Hamas:

Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.

Israel:

Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:

Deliberate Attacks on Civilians

Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:

Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.

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-3 points

Let break it down.

Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967

False, Israel left Gaza in 2005, the blockade started after Hamas fired rockets into Israel.

Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations.

False, Hamas is a modern, local, branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. A movement that was already active in the area in 1929 (1929 Palestine riots).

Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.

This is why Israel has peace with Jordan and Egypt. Yes. Also, remind me, who broke the ceasefire on 2006? On 2023? Not Israel.

It is not ‘99% Muslim because they murdered everyone else’ that’s an insane racist lie. Palestine has historically been a safe haven for people of every religion seeking asylum from persecution.

Like the Jewish people that lived in Gaza in 1929? Like the Jewish people of Zfat in (1834 looting of Safed as an example, there are more)? The Christian population in most, if not all, Muslim controlled territories has declined due to persecution by Muslims.

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