"No, I'm not doing nothing I'm raising awareness!"(lemmy.world)

If you agree that Kamala would be better than Trump short and long term, and that one of them will be president, then how can you, in good faith, advocate for people not to vote in a way that increases the odds of the better option and decreases the odds of the worse one?

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OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml

-2 points

14 days ago

Because one being better than the other is not the same as being an acceptable choice. If I’m in a burning building, what fundamentally needs to happen is that I escape. You can argue that the flames on one side of the room are higher than the flames on the other side of the room, but I don’t care, because if I stay in the room I’ll die. The only thing that matters is finding the door.

You asked if I thought a third party could win this election, and the answer is no. But could a third party win a future election? The answer to that is yes, maybe. The results of this election will inform voters in future elections of whether a third party is viable. The most important thing is increasing the chances of getting to an acceptable outcome, everything else is secondary to that goal.

In the meantime, voting third party can influence things in other ways. If the Democrats can only win by getting a third party’s endorsement, then they can potentially be brought to the bargaining table.

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null@slrpnk.net

3 points

14 days ago

Because one being better than the other is not the same as being an acceptable choice.

But you already agreed that for swing state voters, there are effectively only 2 choices, and that one is better than the other in both the short and long term.

If I’m in a burning building, what fundamentally needs to happen is that I escape. You can argue that the flames on one side of the room are higher than the flames on the other side of the room, but I don’t care, because if I stay in the room I’ll die.

Again, you agreed that escape is effectively not an option through voting. Moving toward the side of the room with fewer flames is objectively the better choice while you work on establishing an escape.

Why on earth would you stand in the middle and let the fire decide?

You asked if I thought a third party could win this election, and the answer is no. But could a third party win a future election? The answer to that is yes, maybe. The results of this election will inform voters in future elections of whether a third party is viable.

No. Not in a first-past-the-post system. Can’t happen.

I bet we’d agree that that system needs to change, but it will not happen by voting 3rd party every 4 years.

The most important thing is increasing the chances of getting to an acceptable outcome, everything else is secondary to that goal.

Precisely. And within this system, with this short of a runway, Kamala is the only acceptable out of the 2 outcomes we agree are the only 2 possible.

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OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml

-1 points

14 days ago

But you already agreed that for swing state voters, there are effectively only 2 choices

Hold up. All I agreed with is that in this election, it wasn’t realistic for a third party to win. You’re trying to take that as meaning there’s no reason to vote third party. As I explained, it’s possible for third parties to wield influence, and giving them more votes gives them more ability to do that.

There are effectively two possible winners but that’s not the same as there being effectively two choices. The question isn’t “Do you think a third party can win this election,” the question is, “Do you think voting third party cause any positive effects?” to which my answer is yes.

Again, you agreed that escape is effectively not an option through voting.

I did no such thing. You’re twisting my words and jumping to conclusions.

Moving toward the side of the room with fewer flames is objectively the better choice while you work on establishing an escape.

Why on earth would you stand in the middle and let the fire decide?

I’m amazed that you managed to miss the point that hard. I don’t give a shit which fire is more comfortable to burn to death in. If there’s no way out, then I will still try to wail on the walls until I can’t anymore.

Kamala is the only acceptable

Kamala is fundamentally unacceptable. Again, you’re just acting like things are established when they very much are not.

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null@slrpnk.net

3 points

14 days ago

Hold up. All I agreed with is that in this election, it wasn’t realistic for a third party to win. You’re trying to take that as meaning there’s no reason to vote third party. As I explained, it’s possible for third parties to wield influence, and giving them more votes gives them more ability to do that.

Again – no shot. Not in FPTP. You virtue signaling every 4 years has never and will never change that.

I did no such thing. You’re twisting my words and jumping to conclusions.

Yes you did. You agreed that that only Trump or Kamala will be president after this election. Don’t backtrack, there’s a reason I insisted on these answers.

I’m amazed that you managed to miss the point that hard. I don’t give a shit which fire is more comfortable to burn to death in. If there’s no way out, then I will still try to wail on the walls.

Again, why would you not wail on the walls in the room with less fire? What an absurd stance…

Kamala is fundamentally unacceptable.

Again, you already agreed she is the better option of the only 2 outcomes that will happen. Don’t twist my words ;)

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