these folks sure are quiet these days(lemmy.dbzer0.com)

Clearly a huge amount of people had issues with her or she would have won more votes. It’s like Trump thinking if we stopped testing for COVID it would stop happening.

If the leftists shut up Harris just would have lost in silence.

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TheFonz@lemmy.world

0 points

2 months ago

I don’t buy that. Trump got the undying loyalty support of all right wing media while Harris’s every word and move was scrutinized endlessly on left media. Even Joe Rogan - - supposed enlightened centrist - - did not dare criticize the god emperor Trump. It’s just not the same when it comes to the standards. We are so far from even beginning to have a conversation about progressive policies because we can’t even get our most basic candidates elected.

The right marches us in lockstep towards the bottom while we stick our noses up to our imperfect candidates. I just don’t buy it.

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Krauerking@lemy.lol

2 points

2 months ago

You are so backwards from reality that I don’t think it’s worth any of my time to point out all the wrong things you just said there as I doubt you will hear it at this point.

And the idea that we need to elect a centrist so that they can enact progressive policy they don’t want to do is up there.

Maybe just start with the thought that no one owes voting for an “imperfect” candidate if they just don’t want them in office.

Perfection is what you think people need when a real look at reality and hope to fix its issues is more than enough.

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TheFonz@lemmy.world

1 point

2 months ago

I didn’t say we need to elect a centrist to enact progressive policy (and by the way, you may call Kamala a centrist but she also had some very progressive policies). Biden has also enacted many progressive policies, so to just hand wave it away is laughable. The issue is your understanding of how politics works. If Bernie was president it’s not like he could magic wand all your dreams into existence. This is something you guys either don’t understand or just willingly ignore so you can stick your nose up at whatever candidate the DNC puts up. It doesn’t matter because after Trump’s cabinet is done we will be set back another hundred years. He will have the house, the judicial and everything else and we can sit here real smug about how ‘centrist’ Kamala was.

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Krauerking@lemy.lol

1 point

2 months ago

You did. You said we need to elect whoever the Democrats give us to get progressive policies but whoever they give us will likely not support them. It’s putting the cart before the horse.

And she didn’t really. Look into her policies and they lacked any actual support for the larger population percentage. She was a centrist. It’s not pretend because you want to pretend she’s not.

Her house buying support was only for for first generation homebuyers, mostly immigrants who had lived in corporate owned apartments to track rent payments for 2 years and no one else. Business loans were for specific races in specific cities with specific history again. Trans support for prisoners but not health care for regular citizens. So on. She picked hyper specifics and that’s not helping people. That’s helping specific groups in ways they think keeps status quo but gets more votes.

When everyone feels like they are hurting telling them to hold on while you apply hyper specific help doesn’t feel very progressive or helpful.

It’s not picking apart by the way. It’s not like she didn’t say these things out loud and mean it. And other people who pay less attention aren’t going to be excited to hear about plans that don’t help them.

The issue is that you don’t know that people vote on emotion and think people can be told what’s best for them while they feel differently. It’s not that Bernie or any progressive would fix everything immediately but Trump won because he admitted there is a problem and agreed with people feeling hurt by the system.

He’s not gonna fix it, but he didn’t make people feel dumb and ignored. It’s not about you or me but the millions that it was true for. So acting smug about how centrist she wasn’t doesn’t help us either and won’t change her loss.

It gets you and the rest of us nowhere and is a great way to lose again by doing nothing but battling with hypothetical pedantry against reality.

Again join reality and maybe you might get somewhere but currently there is no way forward when this hellbent imagining it how you want. Everyone else will move on without the DNC if they have to. Change will and must happen. Sticking your nose up at it because you’d prefer it didn’t will keep you being ineffective at moving with it.

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TheFonz@lemmy.world

1 point

2 months ago

Here’s reality: The republican party put forward a candidate that literally quoted Mein Kampf and was also found liable for sexual abuse in court by a jury. The entire republican media apparatus and electoral base not only stood behind him but rabidly endorsed him lockstep from beginning to end. The DNC put forward a candidate that wasn’t very left (I’ll be first to agree with you that her platform tried to cater to the center). I’ll also grant that she wasn’t as charming or funny as Trump and she came across as center technocrat. I’ll grant you all of that.

My issue is we’ll never make progress because democrats (and when I say democrats I mean beyond the electoral base to include the entire media environment) will shred and nitpick any candidate regardless of where their policies stand. It’s not the policies, because even your post is a testament that you don’t understand how policies translate into legislation. Bernie could have come out with universal healthcare, and I promise you the democratic media apparatus would still find something to nitpick. There just isn’t solidarity on this side as the democratic platform has a very strong plurality of voices that hardly ever agree. None of this is diversity of opinion is happening on the side that is pulling us into a christian neo-fascist state. And believe me: those guys show up to vote every time.

Let’s assume that her polices were too center for your preferences. So what? Now that republicans control all branches and the judicial they’ll dismantle everything we built up so far. So congratulations I guess? We have to redo 100 years of work because Kamala just wasnt left enough for us.

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WrenFeathers@lemmy.worldM

1 point

2 months ago

Deleted by creator

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Krauerking@lemy.lol

1 point

2 months ago

Come around to what? People vote on emotion. And aren’t on Lemmy.

If there is a next election and people are feeling bad about the Republicans they might be looking for a different answer but it won’t be nuance.

Hoping for the general dumb populace to understand that a do nothing centrist is their best option to someone that agrees with them about items they passionately feel about is not going to happen. They will need to feel the other candidate supports them more properly than what they are getting which is why Trump won.

No nuance is gonna fix that and it’s cool to believe and hope that people will just come around to “better” conclusions.

What people will need to see and will often come around to us change. Hopefully more of us recognize that will happen anyways and help grab the reigns from the awful people who would hold them to oppress and use them to lead. But none of us in this comment chain right here will have the reach you are hoping for to ease your mind.

these folks sure are quiet these days(lemmy.dbzer0.com)

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