Maybe some day they’ll care about voters the way they very obviously care about corporate donors.
How are you coming away with that the lesson to learn? The guys that won care even less for voters. The lesson appears to be: “Say whatever you think voters want to hear at that exact moment with no intention of following through for their benefit.”
That’s rather the point isn’t it? Republicans lie constantly about everything but those lies are about things their voters want. Democrats meanwhile tell their voters that they’ll get what Democrats are gracious enough to give them and be happy they’re not as bad as the Republicans. In either case neither party is delivering what progressive voters are asking for. Then Democrats wonder why they have voter turnout problems.
People are sick and tired of showing up to vote for the lesser evil and the result being either things only get very slightly worse or much worse depending on who wins. It’s particularly hard for people to justify investing that time and effort when they’re struggling to just survive day to day and keep a roof over their head and food in their stomachs.
I and many others tried our best this last election to keep Trump out of office but we can all only do so much when the Democrats are working against us every step of the way. We need an actual progressive running on progressive policies out of the Democrats if they want to win an election, because running as diet conservative isn’t cutting it anymore.
People gave Bernie a lot of shit for being a populist but you know what? He motivated people. His supporters were excited to get out and vote for him. Unfortunately he was never given the chance and instead we got the same tired “we’ll run on Republican policies from two decades ago” Democrats.
Even Obama, the most “progressive” Democrat in at least fifty years, promised socialized healthcare like the rest of the first world countries have but ended up delivering a watered down half assed Republican healthcare plan instead.
So yeah, people are sick and tired of Democrats that only ever seem to be able to successfully deliver things wealthy corporate donors are asking for.
That’s rather the point isn’t it? Republicans lie constantly about everything but those lies are about things their voters want. Democrats meanwhile tell their voters that they’ll get what Democrats are gracious enough to give them and be happy they’re not as bad as the Republicans. In either case neither party is delivering what progressive voters are asking for. Then Democrats wonder why they have voter turnout problems.
But again, the lesson Democrats need to learn is that American voters just care about what the candidate says during the campaign, not actual policy delivered if elected. So Democrats should adopt the same method of the GOP, simply straight up lying to the electorate and the Democrats will have a better chance of winning.
People are sick and tired of showing up to vote for the lesser evil
I’m not buying this as a reason they voted for Trump. If they saw Harris as the “lesser evil” then that would acknowledge they are actively voting for the “greater evil”.
The result being either things only get very slightly worse or much worse depending on who wins. It’s particularly hard for people to justify investing that time and effort when they’re struggling to just survive day to day and keep a roof over their head and food in their stomachs.
So they vote for the one that will make it MUCH worse?
I and many others tried our best this last election to keep Trump out of office but we can all only do so much when the Democrats are working against us every step of the way. We need an actual progressive running on progressive policies out of the Democrats if they want to win an election, because running as diet conservative isn’t cutting it anymore.
Again, that appears to be the wrong message. Voters didn’t want any measure of progressive policies. They voted for Trump with his regressive policies. Democrats apparently need to do the same to win votes.
So yeah, people are sick and tired of Democrats that only ever seem to be able to successfully deliver things wealthy corporate donors are asking for.
I disagree with your assessment, but that is exactly what Trump is going to do, and he got the votes, so its the winning strategy apparently.
You seem to be assuming that people who were going to vote for Harris decided to vote for Trump. That’s not even remotely true. What happened is a lot of people who would have voted for Harris stayed home, while a lot of people that normally don’t vote at all decided to vote for Trump.
Democrats could actually win an election or two by running the Republican playbook of lying through their teeth. It more or less worked for Obama who talked a big game then delivered on very little of it. But ultimately that would be a losing strategy. Democrats are not like Republicans, they not only want to hear policies they agree with, they expect to see them implemented.
the lesson Democrats need to learn is that American voters just care about what the candidate says during the campaign, not actual policy delivered if elected. So Democrats should adopt the same method of the GOP, simply straight up lying to the electorate and the Democrats will have a better chance of winning.
That already happened long ago. The problem this time was that the things they thought “people wanted to hear” were a bunch of right-wing talking points about immigration and genocide along with a slew of others.
I’m not buying this as a reason they voted for Trump. If they saw Harris as the “lesser evil” then that would acknowledge they are actively voting for the “greater evil”.
Trump got about the same number of votes as he did in 2020. Trump didn’t win because former Democratic voters switched sides. He won because people who voted for Biden in 2020 didn’t vote at all.
Voters didn’t want any measure of progressive policies. They voted for Trump with his regressive policies. Democrats apparently need to do the same to win votes.
Based on what? No progressive policies were on the table this election. As I said above, Trump didn’t gain any voters this election. The Democrats did push regressive policies this election, and that’s why they lost 10 million votes.
I disagree with your assessment, but that is exactly what Trump is going to do, and he got the votes, so its the winning strategy apparently.
That’s the winning strategy when you’re an avowed right-winger trying to court right-wing votes. When you’re supposed to represent “the left,” spouting a bunch of right-wing rhetoric and courting endorsements from people like Dick Cheney is a surefire way to lose as evidenced by the fact that Harris lost so many votes.
Democrats at least in the last cycle told their voters what they can get based on what is achievable during a term.
It was a realistic outlook. It wasn’t just lying and pandering.
What seems to be what you would prefer which is absolutely crazy. Why do you want to be lied to just for your vote and then no actual action taken? Somehow that is better than being told what is real and then action being taken on what is possible?
The amount of commentary in this thread that share the sentiment is mind-boggling. If most of the voter base in this country only cares about lip service then this place is well and truly fucked. Nothing can fix that, not within a couple generations.
If this is the case then idiocracy really was a documentary…
People don’t care if it takes 1 term or 10 terms, what they want to hear is that Democrats are working on both short and long term goals to address the problems they care about. They want to hear meaningful changes. What they got is a message that Democrats are hard at work rearranging the deck chairs while the Titanic is sinking. There are many systemic issues in the US right now. The Democrats just needed to fucking pick one, start working on fixing it, and explain to people how they’re working on fixing it.
How about working to get Citizens United overturned? How about actually working on proper socialized healthcare instead of the bandaid that the insurance marketplace was? Working on getting rid of first past the post? Working on creating a federal right to abortion? Coming up with some way to keep the GOP from packing the supreme court with corrupt “judges” who treat the constitution like toilet paper? How about fixing our IP laws to be something sane like cutting copyright to 15 years? Just taxes in general, the 1% tax bracket should be paying 90% in taxes. Make capital gains taxes higher than income tax. These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s dozens more people could come up with.
Why do you want to be lied to just for your vote and then no actual action taken? Somehow that is better than being told what is real and then action being taken on what is possible?
The amount of commentary in this thread that share the sentiment is mind-boggling. If most of the voter base in this country only cares about lip service then this place is well and truly fucked.
What I find mind-boggling is how you can look at the actual performance and actions of the Democratic party over the last couple decades and claim that any of their campaign promises or leftist rhetoric was anything but lip service and lies with no actual action taken. The proof is in the pudding and the pudding is rotten. Keep telling us about “what is possible” while the Republican party continues to do “the impossible” day after day in their quest for power.
If that’s what it takes to win then they should fucking do it, assuming democrats even want to win.
I don’t really care what the Democratic leadership want, or even say they want. If they’re not prepared to stand up to Trump, then I’ll support others who are willing. If you’re in a pre-revolutionary situation, does it make sense to try coalescing the resistance around a failed controlled opposition?
Agreed. To compare this to other current political events, it’s like they’re arguing that Palestinians need to continue to back Hamas “no matter what” if they ever want their freedom even though Hamas has done them dirty (not to mention Israel’s atrocities). It’s a failed solution and continuing it at this point is insane.
The GOP, unlike the DNC, absolutely care what their voters think. That’s the whole point of the culture war project.
The GOP, unlike the DNC, absolutely care what their voters think. That’s the whole point of the culture war project.
Of course they care about what voters think. They need to know what to say to lie to them. It doesn’t mean they’ll actually intact policies that will help Americans. The most working class Americans might get is minorities being subjugated more, which for some is a win.
I mean you’re not wrong but that doesn’t make them better than the DNC, at least in terms of policy. The GOP enacts policies they know will hurt their voters but lie and tell them they’ll help them. Then when those policies inevitably make things worse they lie again and claim they would have worked, but Democrats/minorities fucked it up. That has been their go to move since Reagan and it’s worked amazingly well. Reaganomics/trickle down economics has never once in history worked to do anything but make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Likewise cutting taxes doesn’t do anything but hurt the poor and middle class. But the GOP time and time again puts forward this myth that both of those policies will help the working class and their room temperature IQ supporters gobble it up despite it never once in over 40 years actually working.
Most of the thread seems to take this lesson. Which is crazy.
They would literally rather have a pandering candidate who just lies to them to get their votes and then does nothing after then a candidate who is transparent about what they can and cannot do, and pushes realistic change that can actually be achieved within their term.
This country is fucked, because the voter base is comprised of morons. The education system has failed this country and there really isn’t any turning back now. If entire generations lack critical thinking ability then they lack the ability to make good choices, and are unable to see past their nose, never mind vote.
