Fire camp is a program that most prisoners actually want to get into. They get to learn useful skills, the accommodations are better, and the prisoners there don’t want to get removed from the program so they’re unlikely to be violent. I have a friend who spent 3 years in that program and he greatly preferred it to the prison he transferred from.
Tolerable accommodations, learning skills that can be put to use on the outside, and no fear of violence should be some of the basics of a prison system. The fact that our prison system is so fucked that slavery seems like a better deal isn’t a credit to slavery, it’s evidence of a horrifically broken prison system.
Our prison system absolutely has some major flaws, but fire camp is what you said, tolerable conditions, the ability to learn job skills and work outside, and learn a skill. You can’t guarantee safety from violence among violent people unless they are isolated, and that’s a worse punishment than anything. What I’m saying is that your criticisms of the general prison system aren’t applicable to fire camp, because it offers the things you mentioned.
you’re missing the point: the slaves who embrace their slavery are treated better than the slaves who resist; like slaves are supposed to do.
Getting paid 50 cents an hour to get put in a life-threatening situation because the state doesn’t want to hire firefighters, and would rather pay its prison population a pittance.
Are you under the impression that these prisoners are the only people fighting the fires in California? That is not the case, if that’s your impression.
Apologies, yes california does employ some ppl to fight fires with the help of some slaves, my bad.
Good people don’t make excuses to abuse human beings.
You’re a bad person.
Always a little disturbing to see these comments. Cause every single time they are made I see phrases like “most prisoners” just straight up acknowledging that it’s not all. Hand waving that away. Creepy.
Not to mention other things like, is it actually true that most prisoners would want to get put in a life threatening situation?
And why are we not acknowledging that the US regime gives prisoners these “choices”: go outside and die for the state, work on our prison farms, get contracted out to private companies, or stare at a wall in a cell. Truly an evil empire that should not be apologized for.
go outside and die for the state
At least three incarcerated fireghters died between 2017 and 2020. That same article says there were 1,760 incarcerated firefighters working in July 2023. Non-incarcerated firefighters also risk death; here’s two firefighters and a pilot who died in a helicopter crash, also from 2023. Quadrupling the known death rate among incarcerated workers gets us to 170 deaths per 100,000 workers. That’s well below everything on this table besides “office and administrative support.”
We rightly clown on cops for exaggerating how dangerous their jobs are. We are doing the same thing when we characterize this program as “go out and die for the state” or (as another commenter said) compare it to gladiators.
We don’t need exaggerations to make the case for socialism, and exaggerating only hurts us. We’re seeing that in this thread, where we’re dogpiling people for agreeing that prison slavery exists in the U.S. but arguing that we are stretching that definition to the breaking point. Why are we fighting people who largely agree with us already?
Well how would you suggest we deal with people who harm other people? If you can’t put them in a cell, and you can’t make them work, and you can’t teach them to be wilderness firefighters and have them perform those duties, then what do you propose?
I don’t presume to know the minds of every person. I do know that my friend was glad to get into the program, as was everyone else he told me about who was in it.
If you’re not presuming that then why did you say most prisoners instead of just the one single one you claim to know?
‘The slaves that joined the gladiator arena to fight for their freedom actually WANT to be there dont you understand?, They give the gladiators valuable skills, nicer jail cells. I had a friend that spent 3 years as a gladiator and he actually preferred it to being a slave’
Yes the alternatives suck. But are you aware that there’s people who volunteer to be wilderness firefighters for free? Fire camp is a good program.
But then those prisoners aren’t allowed to be hired by professional fire crews after release.
Theu can’t apply the skills they learn.
And then when they get out they can’t use those skills because their criminal record prevents fire departments from hiring them.
Cal-fire will hire them directly out of prison if they’ve completed the program.
Cal-fire will hire them directly out of prison
No, they wont. They will give them the right to apply their is no guaranteed job at the end of it.
Inmates makeup 30% of the fire service in Cali; what a fun way to cut salary costs, hire slaves.
