'This is ethnic cleansing': Trump faces backlash over Gaza proposal(www.middleeasteye.net)

The fact that you place the entire weight of 80 years of US Israeli policy on its most reluctant participant demonstrates your agenda. If Trump was in office on Oct. 7, there would be no palestinian territories anymore. They’d be under the Israeli flag and stained with the blood of American soldiers.

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ubergeek@lemmy.today

6 points

10 days ago

The fact that you place the entire weight of 80 years of US Israeli policy

No, I just place the weight of the Commander in Chief refusing to abide by US law, and ending arms shipments to a genocidal rouge nuclear state, and preventing the UN from holding the genocidal rogue nuclear state to account.

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Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world

5 points

10 days ago

The fact that you place the entire weight of 80 years of US Israeli policy on its most reluctant participant

Biden was not reluctant in the slightest and neither are you.

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Count042@lemmy.ml

2 points

10 days ago

So much for the rational bit of your username.

Though, I guess you can be rational and wrong if you start from false premises.

Biden, and any other American president, can end Israeli wars with a single phone call.

Reagan did it.

Bush did it.

Clinton did it.

In fact, the Israeli military systematically doesn’t know how to end wars because they’ve never had to do it. America has always ended their wars.

It’s literally an aspect of their political ideology:

‘Oh our party can’t be blamed for the war goals not being accomplished. We had to stop because America’

You’re either so horrifically ignorant of recent history (my still living father is older than the state of Israel) that any opinion you spout can be tossed out (no matter how rational), or you know this and are trying to actively provide cover for a president who was happy with the slaughter of mostly children.

Which is it?

Edit: and to be exact, it’s 77 years. And the US wasn’t exactly friendly at the start due to the perceived communist sympathies of the young state. You know, the whole cold war thing? You may have heard of it?

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rational_lib@lemmy.world

-1 points

10 days ago

Reagan started the 3 billion in military aid to Israel and the other two you mentioned continued it. And this is the very thing Biden is criticized for.

You say they ended wars with phone calls, without specifically saying what you’re referring to. But I can guess the following two things are true of Reagan, Bush, and Clinton: 1) they weren’t dealing with Netanyahu, and 2) they weren’t dealing with Hamas. Netanyahu was clearly not interested in ending the war until his buddy Trump was president, so there never was an option to bring “peace with a phone call”. Biden held back weapons to Israel, taking flak from how own party to do so - did any of his predecessors?

I’m not here to say Biden did enough, but you guys and the pro Israel side have something in common - you have a particular hate for Biden.

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Count042@lemmy.ml

0 points

9 days ago

…

Really?

That is your response?

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Reagan+Israel+war

There is nothing rational about you. It’s impossible to be rational with absolutely no historical knowledge.

It doesn’t matter who the leader of Israel is. Israel isn’t a real country. It doesn’t exist without continuous US funding. In fact, a third of ALL U.S. foreign aid has gone to Israel. Without free cash from the US, Israel goes bankrupt. Without free weapons from America, Israel goes bankrupt.

Any American president, at any time, can end any Israeli war with a phone call. That is, in fact, how all Israeli wars have ended. It’s actually hurt Israel because they don’t know how to set achievable war goals. Instead their wars end when America demands they do.

This is also the same deal Hamas had accepted since may. You mention them like they have been an impediment to the peace negotiations.

Biden held back one shipment of 2,000 lb bombs. A weapon that our military doctrine doesn’t allow us to use near population centers due to the likelihood of civilian casualties, and Israel wanted to drop them in one of the most densely populated places on earth.

Note that I said one shipment. We did provide them other shipments of 2000 lb. The only reason he held up that one shipment was to earn the respect of the utterly, foolishly gullible. Of course, he was required by the Leahy Law to stop all shipments to Israel.

Assuming good faith, which is a stretch at this point, you are utterly and completely ignorant of this topic.

Yeah, I have a hate-on for any worthless fucks that commit genocide. And when you have the power to end it, and don’t, then you are responsible for it.

Now, before you complain about me not providing links, spend 5 seconds trying to educate yourself by using Google. I’m not going to provide links proving the sky is blue, either. Some things you are responsible for finding out yourself.

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rational_lib@lemmy.world

1 point

9 days ago

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Reagan+Israel+war

I don’t have a duty to google to find sources that you won’t provide, nor guess at what your point is. I don’t actually have access to the thoughts in your head beyond what you have written.

There is nothing rational about you. It’s impossible to be rational with absolutely no historical knowledge.

Ad hominem, ignored. If my arguments are irrational, feel free to point out how.

It doesn’t matter who the leader of Israel is… Any American president, at any time, can end any Israeli war with a phone call.

I’ll summarize this point by saying you’re arguing in essence that if Biden demanded an end to the war, it would end because Israel would run out of weapons. This leaves out several other possibilities, the most notable of which is that Democrats are voted out by (usually democratic-voting) jews and Trump takes office and gives Israel whatever they want. Another possibility is Israel allying with Russia or China to get the weapons they need. Either way, the war continues. I happen to think Biden should’ve cut them off anyway, but the point I’m arguing is that every other president would’ve done no more than Biden did. To think otherwise is really a rather far left view that has never been popular is US politics.

Biden held back one shipment of 2,000 lb bombs

I don’t know the details of what Biden did and didn’t pause, this article seems to include more bombs and Trump’s actions ending the pause seems to suggest that it was an ongoing pause of all shipments. But that’s besides the point. The point is, I’m not aware of any other president doing that. I’m also aware of the current president undoing that pause, with little opposition. Which demonstrates how politically suicidal it is to cut off Israel entirely.

And when you have the power to end it, and don’t, then you are responsible for it.

If. The voters used their power to put Trump in office after he was quite clear about wanting Netanyahu to do whatever he wants in Gaza and even the West Bank. I think that says a lot about Biden’s abilities. I think Palestinians and their activist “friends” need to ask themselves some hard questions about how they fumbled winning popular support for ending a genocide.

Now, before you complain about me not providing links, spend 5 seconds trying to educate yourself by using Google.

I completely reject this as impractical and harmful to discussions everywhere. If something is not common knowledge and can be doubted, you need to provide a source. Think about it. The alternative is that I am left to either 1) Trust some random person on the internet or 2) do the work myself to find out, which in your case also involves trying to figure out what you’re even trying to say first, or 3) just assert the opposite without providing a source is response. Most people choose 1) if it’s someone they already agree with, and 3) if it’s someone they disagree with. This is why we have so many culty filter bubbles. Cite your sources. Not only for me, but also for you so you can verify that your memory is correct, and end up making a better point as a result.

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1 point

9 days ago

If Trump was in office on Oct. 7

But he wasn’t, Biden was, and Biden made the choice to back Israel in its genocide to the hilt.

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ubergeek@lemmy.today

4 points

10 days ago

Its braindead to not support a genocider?

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