Comment by LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee on Remember me comrades!

Being anti-tankie does not make you anti-communist.

“Being anti-woke doesn’t mean I’m conservative!”

When people say “anti-woke”, they actually mean that they are anti-doing anything about the awareness of systemic inequality that wokeness indicates. By definition, someone who is against change/progress is a conservative, so when someone says they are anti-woke, they are by definition expressing a conservative stance. That is, wanting to do something about systemic inequality is synonymous with having a progressive stance on systemic inequality.

Being a tankie, on the other hand, is not synonymous with being a comunist. Tankies are just one form of communist (militant).

And when people say they are “anti-tankie”, they actually mean that they are anti doing anything about the awareness of systematic inequality that tankie indicates. By definition, someone who is against change/progress is a conservative, so when someone says they are anti-tankie, they are by definition expressing a conservative stance. That is, wanting to do something about systemic inequality is synonymous with having a progressive stance on systemic inequality.

Being a tankie, on the other hand, is not synonymous with being a comunist. Tankies are just one form of communist (militant).

Other way around: communists are just one form of tankies, the word is also used to refer to anarchists and some soc-dems.

You’re spun around, flipped upside-down, and confused as can be.

Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism; namely, the kind that supports authoritarian regimes that try to impose communism through the use of force to repress dissent.

You can be a communist and not be a tankie. You cannot be against progress and be a progressive.

even anarchist communes have use of force, those moltov cocktails being thrown at police officers arent non-violent and even recent projects like CHAZ/CHOP had para-police forces setup within them to hold order togther

You’re spun around, flipped upside-down, and confused as can be.

Very compelling, but have you considered

spoiler

Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism

No, it’s used to refer a wide, vague blob of vibes, just like the word woke. The people who use it can can do use it to refer to all kinds of communists, most anarchists, and anything to the left of Elizabeth Warren in general.

that try to impose communism through the use of force.

As opposed to the kind of communism where you ask nicely for revolution? Have you actually read any Marx? I guarantee he was not a pacifist.

You can be a communist and not be a tankie

By your own definition you cannot, let alone by a definition of tankie that describes how libs actually use it.

As opposed to the kind of communism where you ask nicely for revolution? Have you actually read any Marx? I guarantee he was not a pacifist.

You deliberately misquoted me by cutting off the end of that sentence so you could have a nice soft strawman to swing at. The full sentence said

that try to impose communism through the use of force to repress dissent.

Forceful revolution by the workers against the capitalist class is a completely different matter from forceful repression of dissent by the state against students and professors.

Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism

Nope, tankie originally referred specifically to British labor party members supporting the USSR’s actions against the coup in Hungary, and today is used to refer to any anti-imperialist leftist, regardless of tendency. Of course all of you claim otherwise, but these claims are provably empty, as nobody who uses the term today, including you in this thread, bothers to check for the actual political views of the people you call tankie, you see something that may go against the state department narratives that are spoonfed to you by V*ush and the reddit front page or whoever else has done this pseudo-leftist brainworming to you and you start yelling tankie at the top of your liberal, western-chauvinist lungs. A good number of the people posting on hexbear are anarchists and DemSocs, but you will label all of them tankie as long as they critically support China or question the narrative on the new forever war in Ukraine, which to you equals “thinking today’s Russia is true communism” and similar nonsense. Your understanding of politics is damaged beyond repair by being socialized as a smartass debatelord who has become entirely incapable of forming judgements not based on learned reflex and of engaging in good faith conversations. I would pity you if people like you wouldn’t be such a disaster for the Western left and for anybody in the Global South suffering from the continued imperialism you help enable by fighting the last genuine critics of genocidal US policies that are left in the West. You CIA tool, you psyop casualty, you neocon bootlicker.

I don’t call someone a tankie based on where they post, but in what they post. If you don’t want to be called a tankie, then don’t post tankie shit.

How so? How is being against AES not anti-comminist?

Why does AES always seems to end up with forced labor camps? I don’t remember forced labor camps being a central part of socialist ideology…

A country can call itself socialist, that doesn’t make it so.

So the arbiter of what is socialist is you? Not the revolutionaries who have actually worked on socialist projects

As opposed to you/hexbear being sole arbiters?

person above wasnt claiming to be the sole arbiters, dumb comment

il take the largest communist projects in the world, the word of millions + people who study marxism and practice it in reality everyday over a liberal who would struggle to define the word ‘socialism’ and whos political education starts and ends with there high school history class + 10 years spent on /r/politics

Yes, I can have an opinion on socialism without having been a socialist-revolutionary. That is correct. Spot on.

What have you actually done to help socialism then?

Are you a union organiser? Are you in a union? Which one? What party are you in? What projects do you support? What are you actually doing as a socialist? Other than voting for a liberal party every few years I mean.

My partner is a teacher and is in a union. We are both active in organizing and supporting. There are no unions for the industry I work in, so I work with hers.

Sure you can have an opinion, but if its about something you know nothing about, and have not investigated then it is worthless. Not just to other people, but to yourself as well

I know you are, but what am I?

So America is AES? We lead the world in prision labor.

America bad does not imply China good.

China doing good in the world while America does bad does imply that though.

Cause you can hate one thing but like an other version.

The world is not black and white.

How you like communism and hate communism at the same time? Its not black and white thinking, its just basic reality

Been thinking about getting one so I can just regurgitate trite Redditisms and feel content contributing nothing to the minds of others.

‘Im not wrong its the billions of people living in communist countries that are wrong’

what the fuck do words even mean anymore, read marx jesus christ

Telling someone to read Marx to understand modern day socialism is like telling someone to read Newton to understand modern day physics tbh.

Yeah, you’re right. It’s also important to read Lenin’s works on imperialism to understand modern socialism. It’s important to study Mao as well.

Newton to understand modern day physics

I mean yeah, if you want to understand the devolopment of physics you are required to understand the foundations it was built on, this is basic study.

Its like telling someone they should read the bible if they want to be christian, or telling someone they should read the instruction manual if they want to actually know what the terms they are using mean.

Yeah, you should read Marx if you want to understand the historical development of socialist ideas, but if that’s where your reading ends, then your ideas are stuck in the past.

Socialism isn’ta religious dogma that is inflexible and unchanging. It’s an intellectual idea that grows and becomes more refined over time.

They’re saying that your take is so incoherent that you need to develop a foundational understanding of the basics.

Before you can learn calculus, you need to learn arithmetic so you don’t end up saying things like 2 != sqrt(4)

I’ve read Marx, I’ve moved on from Marx. You guys clearly haven’t; or at least, you haven’t moved on from Lenin.

Have you read lenin, mao, sankara, deng, marx or any sociological text on neo-marxism?

No, who are those people?

Socialism isn’t an intellectual idea though. It’s not an idea we put on the world, it’s a real movement that abolishes the present state of things.

Tankie usually refers to Marxism-Leninism (as well the ideologies that derived from it such as Maoism). But there are communist ideologies that don’t derive from ML such as Orthodox Marxism, trotskyism, libertarian Marxism, bulshevism, etc.

Tankie usually refers to Marxism-Leninism

no it usually refers to whatever the fuck the person posting it seems to think it is, there is not a coherent label for it.

Orthodox Marxism, trotskyism, libertarian Marxism, bulshevism, etc.

Oh cool, which societies use those?

no it usually refers to whatever the fuck the person posting it seems to think it is, there is not a coherent label for it.

Why are you letting libs define everything? You and I both know they’re dumbasses and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Oh cool, which societies use those?

Anyone could have said the same to Marx about communism at any point in his life, as he died before the October revolution.

Anyone could have said the same to Marx about communism at any point in his life, as he died before the October revolution.

the difference is you named a bunch of dead ideologies that will never be revived, ML is literally the only form of marxism still flourishing

Speculation and also not relevant.

Why are you letting libs define everything? You and I both know they’re dumbasses and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Yeah I’m sure everyone in the lemmyverse is using the word tankie to refer to those of us who support the 1956 Soviet intervention in Hungary /s

How would Trotskyism be any less “authoritarian” Than marxism leninism ? Also almost every claims on some level to be “orthodox marxist”, lenin most of all and MLs as well

Omg read theory dammit!

I used to think that Marx was overrated because I never needed to read him but holy shit it’s clear that 95% of the populace cannot form coherent ideologies without being taught them

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