My entire point is that it is not “all or nothing”. You can say the debate on male/female athletics is a complicated one where both sides have valid point and also think literally everything else you posted is disgusting and should never be considered.

If we’re being honest, this sounds very reminiscent of how republicans in the early 2000s would take objections to the war as “not supporting the troops”. Or the way people that criticize Israel for their treatment of Palestine are called antisemitic when they fully support the Jewish people.

You can believe different things about each debate without being a full on bigot that wants to open concentration camps for trans children.

Thank you for making this post.

You’ve outlined exactly why allowing the far right to resolve perceived social issues isn’t the way forward, especially when it comes to any sort of “minority” (which seems to be anything that isn’t non-immigrant white Christian cis straight men) issues.

Here’s what happens. A republican says 100 things, and 90 of which are batshit crazy and undeniable bullshit, but 10 of them are reasonable.

If we completely ignore the 10 reasonable things, then we lose all credibility in the argument when pointing the bullshit of the other 90 things.

I genuinely believe there are people out there that only hear the 10 reasonable things the republicans say and then see somebody like you completely dismiss those things and conclude that YOU are the unreasonable one. These people don’t pay attention the way you and I do, but still have the same voting power (if not more depending on the state they live in).

Your unwillingness to partition issues and treat them based on their individual merits will only lead to the opposition gaining more support and power.

Well, this is a conversation for sure. Brushing somebody off that doesn’t have the same experience as you is no way to keep people on your side.

I honestly have never heard of a study on trans athletes, so I don’t even know what you’re referring to. And if you’re saying there are biological differences between cisgender people and trans people, this is not an argument I have ever heard and is the exact example of nuance in the conversation I was referring to.

So, here’s my thinking if you are open to hearing it. I am a very liberal and compassionate person. I have always been. I absolutely support trans people, and if one of my children came out as trans I would be happy for them and support them. The hate that comes from republicans towards trans people (even children) disgusts me. But I have never understood the debate on athletics.

First, if you’re saying that legislation is largely unnecessary because the governing bodies of the sports leagues are already handling it, I totally agree. Those legislations are more about pointing a finger at trans people and shaming them than it is about protecting young athletes.

Second, you phrase it as “banning trans athletes”. This sounds different than the debate I have heard. There are plenty of rec leagues or clubs where your sex/gender shouldn’t come into play. And other leagues just depend on sex, not gender identification. Nobody should be saying a trans woman can’t play in a “male” league.

Now, it seems like you’re saying people born male should be allowed to compete in any competitive league according to their gender. This is where I disagree (and the governing bodies of the leagues should enforce this).

It seems like there are thousands of years of evidence that people born male have an athletic advantage over people born female. This is the entire reason male and female sports have always been separated. For you to say there is no evidence of an advantage goes counter to what seems obvious.

If I had a daughter that was in a competitive sport, I would be upset if she was losing to somebody that had obvious biological advantages of being born male (size, strength, etc).

With all that said, when I hear somebody like Newsom bring up the athletics debate then I hear somebody say liberals are “walking back any support for trans folk”, I feel like this is just throwing the baby out with the bath water. I don’t know if Newsom had other negative things to say about Trans people, which is mostly why I asked the question initially.

I hear you, and I appreciate the way you’ve articulated this. It’s beyond disheartening to see how science and rational discussion are being undermined, often for political gain. For over 30 years, Fox News has manipulated large swaths of the American population into rejecting science, common sense, and even empathy for their own neighbors, friends, and family. It’s frustrating to see so much energy spent on manufactured outrage while real issues are ignored. Just wanted to send my support and appreciation for your perspective.

e: oof. Mods removed my “You’ve perfectly articulated my thoughts as well.” comment which ended up getting -7 points. They’ve also removed a lot of other comments in our conversations, I’m assuming because they violated rule #4, #5, or #6. I’m assuming they thought mine was low effort posting, but I’m not sure. Either way, as was my intent with the first comment, I’m very impressed with your ability to articulate your perspective.

e2: I was banned for Transphobia! I can’t articulate how absurd that is. 🥚