You are viewing a single thread.
View all comments
61 points
*

We should disincentivize antisocial behavior rather than ban specific technologies. If rental e-scooters left in the middle of the sidewalk are a problem, require rental companies to provide parking where the e-scooter must be docked at the end of the journey, for example.

As long as e-scooters are primarily replacing car trips, they are a net benefit to society. Let’s iron out the wrinkles instead of an outright ban.

permalink
report
reply
26 points

E-scooters didn’t usually replace car trips in Paris, but instead walking and public transport trips.

permalink
report
parent
reply
11 points

If that’s the case, and I don’t have statistics one way or another, then we must ask ourselves why people dislike walking and taking transit in Paris and do something about it, rather than banning alternatives.

permalink
report
parent
reply
10 points

Laziness ? Ease of bypassing rules ? (slight /s)

Honestly, between the very extensive metro system that pretty much goes everywhere in Paris, complementary bus lines and docked (e-)bikes that are pretty much everywhere in the city, Paris has a very good offer for mobility. Sure, things can always be improved, but on that aspect, I don’t think we can really blame the city.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

I mean for walking, that seems straightforward. A scooter is slower and you’re exposed to the elements. A scooter is more of a drop-in replacement for walking than riding in a car.

permalink
report
parent
reply
16 points
*

I can tell you how these are used in Prague because I’ve almost been hit by them multiple times while attempting to walk on the sidewalk.

They are used by tourists that don’t put in the minimal effort to understand the extensive and very effective tram and metro system. They are usually ridden on sidewalks which is against the law. They are ridden without helmets which has caused a huge uptick in hospital visits.

Basically we are all subsidizing the treatment of injuries caused by these fucking rental companies which provide no net benefit and defund our excellent public transportation. Meanwhile we have to play frogger every time we get on the sidewalk because tourists are riding these things illegally all over the place.

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points

I support bans on dockless scooter rentals, but allow dock based systems

permalink
report
parent
reply

But a big appeal of it is, that you can drop it off anywhere. If you can only unlock and lock them a specific stations, you might as well make a bus/tram/metro line.

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points

…which is fine. We can’t encourage antisocial behavior, and leaving private stuff for free in the middle of the street is antisocial behavior. Free on-street parking for cars is just as bad for everyone, but people have grown accustomed to it and get bothered by e-scooters even though they take a small fraction of the space of a parked car.

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

Paris is slowly but surely greatly limiting cars in every way possible in the city, even motorbikes now have to pay to park in the streets.

It’s just that users of shared e-scooters were not being respectful. We don’t see any problems with shared docked bikes and other types of personal bikes/e-scooters, which are all still allowed.

permalink
report
parent
reply

i fully agree with the parking of cars issue. But for that at least exist systems to reprimand people parking outside of the alloted spots and many cities have parking spots only designated for people actually living there.

For scooters we would need a default fine, of say 20€ per scooter that is not in the correct spot or is parked in a way to hinder other people. The fee would need to be deducted directly from the company, irrespectuve of whether they pass it on.

But that kinda brings us to the point that the whole business model is bullshit, as it can only be profitable with internalizing public goods and externalizing the costs of manageing the dipshits that are misusing them, endangering the safety of other people.

permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

How do these things even work without being docked? When do they recharge?

permalink
report
parent
reply
7 points

By exploiting people with miserable working conditions that collect all e-scooters and recharge them for the main company.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Where I live, people in rental trucks go around at night gathering low battery scooters and unloading fully charged ones. Apparently you can make good money doing that work and recharging them.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

It’s hard to really think of a use case for scooters that isn’t already fulfilled by e-bikes, and there’s already good biking infrastructure throughout the city that’s rapidly developing, including storage and parking. I can understand an argument that a new transit mode that would require a lot of infrastructure isn’t worth it.

permalink
report
parent
reply
5 points

Some people clearly prefer e-scooters over bicycles, otherwise they would not have been successful so far.

Parking for e-scooters isn’t “a lot of infrastructure” when in the space of just one car you can park, say, 8 e-scooters? If we are going to be so particular about the downsides of e-scooters then we also need to take a hard look at the immense externalities of cars, from on-street parking to street noise and road maintenance costs.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

How much of that preference is expressly because they don’t need to be parked, which residents are increasingly finding intolerable?

Remove that, and I don’t really see the benefit over just investing more money in expanding bikes. By all means, absolutely do take more space from cars though. They’re a blight.

You could try to mandate parking them is designated zones that are currently used for automobile parking, though I do wonder how effective enforcement would really be.

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

Escooters are really, really lot more convenient than ebikes on very short distances and if you need to carry the scooter/bike with you in further public transport or take it inside to workplace

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

Scooters are much cheaper than e-bikes. You can probably get two e-scooters for the price of an e-bike. They are probably closer to regular bikes in price. But regular rental bikes are less attractive to people with low fitness levels. Especially when they have airless tires.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

e-bikes

Do e-bikes not have the same problems as e-scooters? If no, why not?

permalink
report
parent
reply
4 points

A huge reason why the companies behind the scooters have been able to fund it is because they haven’t had to build any real support infrastructure since they can just take advantage of public sidewalk space. e-bikes have had to deploy actual infrastructure with parking and docks.

If we were coming from point zero, I wouldn’t see a huge reason for one or the other, but at this point, infrastructure already exists for bikes, so why spend more time and use more limited street and parking space and money for another mode of transit that doesn’t really solve any new problems?

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

It is not the scooter company who decides/limit where scooters need to be parked, it’s the city.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Europe

!europe@feddit.de

Create post

News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures

Rules

(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)

  1. Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
  2. No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
  3. No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.

Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee

Community stats

  • 1

    Monthly active users

  • 2.9K

    Posts

  • 30K

    Comments

Community moderators