Lemdro.id

6 points

5 days ago

I’m still highly skeptical that green hydrogen can be a viable export. Will it really be cheaper to do electrolysis in Canada and ship it abroad in leaky containers rather than building a solar farm or some other renewable energy source and producing hydrogen domestically? Will there even be the global demand for hydrogen to justify such a build out? I guess time will tell but I’m pretty cynical about it

report

[ - ]

humanspiral@lemmy.ca

1 point

5 days ago

You are right that intercontinental shipping of h2 is the last frontier for h2 economy. Local production from solar, and short distribution routes is first step.

report

[ - ]

Daryl@lemmy.caOP

-1 points

5 days ago

Hydrogen is not just a fuel, it is important in many chemical and manufacturing processes.

Methinks your cynicism comes from a lack of knowledge.

Or a deliberate attempt to discourage Canada from developing our hydrogen infrastructure long enough for the US to attempt to sweep it out from under us.

But that is my cynicism.

report

[ - ]

3 points

5 days ago

I’m aware that hydrogen is useful for lots of industrial processes, but the line that is being sold for building up hydrogen capacity at a large scale is that there will be high demand for it to be used as a fuel. Besides, the same issues persist whether it’s being used industrially or as a fuel, does Canada even have the domestic demand to justify a huge scale up of hydrogen production?

You are correct that I am not very knowledgeable about the hydrogen industry, which is in part why I am skeptical. My experience is limited to geology and I know that a lot of domestic hydrogen production occurs at oil and gas drilling sites, so I have been suspicious of the push for hydrogen being another greenwashing gambit by O&G companies to get more money from government to drill for more oil and gas.

I am not trying to discourage development of an industry but I don’t think I’m asking unreasonable questions. If government is going to be investing a shit ton of money into this, we should be sure that it’s a good investment.

report

[ - ]

Daryl@lemmy.caOP

-1 points

5 days ago

You obviously did not read that part about Germany, Korea, Japan taking al the hydrogen we can produce.

We pump far more oil and natural gas out of the ground than Canada will EVER use in domestic consumption. Whatever do we do with all the excess?

report

[ - ]

4 points

5 days ago

Okay so let me be clear as to what my concerns are.

Hydrogen production, whether to be used as a fuel source or as a chemical reagent, is not problematic in isolation. However, even in this document you’ve linked hydrogen is being pitched largely as a green fuel source to in part replace fossil fuels in thr future. Much of the current hydrogen capacity and advance developments for hydrogen production come as a byproduct of oil and gas wells. That type of hydrogen is only considered “low carbon” because of current and potentiao future capabilities of carbon sequestration by oil and gas companies. The issues i have with carbon sequestration are a whole other story but let’s just say I am also doubtful of its feasibility.

If other countries are buying our hydrogen, it’s because it’s cheaper than what they could potentially produce locally. If we stopped production of geological hydrogen for the purposes of reducing emissions, would it still be cheaper for other nations to import our hydrogen vs developing their own domestic production facilities? If we don’t ramp down fossil fuel production, then hydrogen isn’t really solving any problems and I would rather we invest money into actually decarbonizing the economy.

It just seems like to me hydrogen can either be a way to decarbonize the economy OR a way to boost economic development in canada, but I am skeptical that it can do both effectively.

report

[ - ]

Daryl@lemmy.caOP

0 points

4 days ago

They are buying from the Maritime provinces, Newfoundland in particular, and it is all from wind, solar, and water power. Particularly electrolysis of water. None of the hydrogen is coming from fossil fuels. Read my links, stop flapping off to me unless you read the links. I did not ever say anything about it coming from fossil fuels, and neither did the links.

Canada has an overabundance of very cheap non-fossil-fuel sources of energy, so we can economically convert this abundant energy to hydrogen (ammonia) and export it. Better to export our excess electricity to Europe (via ammonia) than let the ungrateful Americans have it.

No matter how clear you try to be, it will always come out murky. You are o the wrong side of the arguement.

report

[ - ]

3 points

4 days ago

“The credit will apply to both electrolysis projects and natural gas reforming projects if emissions are abated with carbon capture utilization and storage (CCUS)” referring to a tax credit for hydrogen development

Another one:

“Offers a 37.5% to 60% credit on the equipment necessary to capture, transport and store carbon emissions, benefitting facilities producing hydrogen from natural gas”

Also:

" The following uses of hydrogen can create CFR credits:

Hydrogen used as a fuel or feedstock in the production of liquid fossil fuels
Hydrogen used as a fuel or feedstock at a low-carbon-intensity fuel production facility
Hydrogen used as a fuel in stationary applications (for example, hydrogen injected in natural gas pipelines)"

Over half of the hydrogen production facilities are from oil and gas:

“There are 13 low-carbon hydrogen production facilities in operation in Canada, comprising 6 electrolytic facilities and 7 projects that have adopted carbon capture to lower the emissions of traditionally carbon intensive hydrogen production”

Don’t act like the concerns I raise are bullshit. I am trying to have a discussion about something you are clearly passionate about and you respond like an asshole. If you want to educate people on things then be prepared to actually discuss the topic rather than attack people becaise they dont want to spend time reading through a technical report to quote a specific reference.

A lot of hype around hydrogen results in government money that subsidizes fossil fuel companies, that’s hardly a green initiative in my mind. Hydrogen production by electrolysis is absolutely a good thing, especially for applications like steel production. I truly hope that stuff works out as an international export. Storage and transport as ammonia seems promising, but comes at a substantial energy expense in the conversion process. Will that plus shipping costs still work out to be cheaper than producing domestically for other nations? Is investing in this technology really the best utilization of our excess energy or are we better off developing more energy intensive industries here? Or maybe even reducing electricity costs for domestic consumers?

report