This post is more about what power level do you like in your games for martials and what do you do to make the feel the way taht feels good according to that.
In my case my biggest problem is how unidimensional they are, so advanced 5e has done the thing for me. I think that if we play at level 20 i would do some hombrew to push them even further but i like how many options they have.
I of the opinion that low level martials are cool but lacking in options and level 9+ martial characters are underpowered AF. That has to do tht as I subjectively understand dnd everything is made by magic, so the limit of physical feats should be as magic, like lifting tons or demolishing buildings with blows.
So, do you like martials in 5e or would you rather them to fulfill a different fantasy?
The problem is that the only way a fighter can interact with the world is by murdering people
Pretty much the only mechanical way to reliably interact with the world. Since the results from skill checks aren’t defined the point that comes across is that they matter less. Why can’t the Fighter “suggest” to the ruffians to drop their weapons through their skill in Intimidation? They can of course but nowhere it is written as clearly as having the spell Suggestion.
To help non-spellcaster have reliable ways to interact and change the world there needs to be more details regarding skill check outcomes.
Yeah, as mentioned by Aielman15, Fighters tend to not have a good Charisma. So it’s actually not just that Martials only have skills, but they are usually worse at those skills compared to Casters (barring Rogue, who is only outclassed by Bard). (Note: I use Martial here to mean “class without the Spellcasting pr Pact Magic features in their base class” and Caster to mean "class that counts fully for Spellcasting multiclassing and Warlock.)
Martials tend to excel in Strength, Dexterity, and/or Constitution and usually be middling at best in other stats. Since there is only one skill associated with Strength: Athletics, while, other stats have at least 3 each (except Constitution) a Strength based character will be worse at skills than other characters. Of course the relative strength of the different skills will vary depending on your table, but I think we can at least all agree that the Charisma based ones tend towards the top. They also don’t get any more Proficiencies or Expertises than any other class (Bard and Rogue are again the exceptions).
In essence, pointing to the skill system doesn’t really help, as Martials aren’t usually any better than Casters at them, or are even worse in some cases.
What you are saying sure does highlight an impalance in the system, one that is probably hard to solve without removing what is “core dnd”. Decoupling skills from attributes is one step. Maneuvers for all another. I don’t know what else to do without starting to make it not dnd. And honestly I don’t really need to do anything. There is apparently something out there called Advanced 5e for those that want “dnd but more”. For me there are a thousand and one systems out there for me to like.
Why can’t the Fighter “suggest” to the ruffians to drop their weapons through their skill in Intimidation?
Because Charisma is a dump stat for fighters.
To help non-spellcaster have reliable ways to interact and change the world there needs to be more details regarding skill check outcomes.
If martials had access to maneuvers, Commanding Presence, Disarming Strike and the likes would go a long way in improving their capabilities outside of combat, as well as giving them abilities with very specific outcomes written in the rules instead of having to ask the DM whether they can try to intimidate a ruffian to drop their weapon.
This is why I changed to Level up advanced 5e. Not only all martial have maneuvers but they also get utility out of combat as features as they level up. Is a really cool alternative to 5e becasue it shares 50% of the system we like and it improves in so many things that we(the group I play with) don’t like
Also, even a fighter who dumped charisma can be intimating.
I feel like alternate abilities skill check should have a bit more spotlight.
The human 20 STR fighter PC wants to intimidate this guy by snapping this fence post in half like a toothpick?
Sure buddy, give me a Strength Intimidation check.
Other people might intimidate through words and sheer personality, but this guy’s as strong as a Glabrezu, yet half the size, and can just bend a sword with his hands. (Oh shit, that’s where all these bent swords are coming from)
While STR Intimidation is specifically mentioned in the rules, there’s a lot more combinations that could make sense depending on the situation.
The problem is it relies mostly on DM fiat instead of neatly and explicitly described spells, so it’s less obvious, less reliable and less used.
