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93 points

Do billionaires actually have billions in real money sitting around? I’ve always thought the billions were in stocks and couldn’t be taxed until they cashed it out and they could technically lose everything if the stock price falls. That’s really fucked up if true

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33 points

Nobody keeps that amount of cash. Even below a million, most people have most of their wealth in either real estate (their own house) or financial securities (stocks, ETFs, bonds).

Yet, we all gotta pay property tax and capital gains.

The billionaires just have loopholes that they use to never realize gains with loan schemes and trust funds.

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11 points

The billionaires just have loopholes that they use to never realize gains with loan schemes and trust funds. <

Isnt that then bigger problem than generally tax the rich?

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12 points

Is there a difference?

Closing loopholes = taxing the rich

If the tax code lost all the loopholes, there probably would be no billionaires.

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32 points
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That is actually the case. Billionaires aren’t swimming in a room full of cash and they don’t some some secret mega vault that holds $100 billion. Most of these guys are founders of very successful corporations, and so they naturally have a larger than average share. Bezos has most of his wealth in Amazon stocks, Zuckerberg in Meta, Musk in Tesla and SpaceX, Gates in Microsoft, and so on. Their wealth goes up and down depending on how well the company they’re most tied to is doing. In the US and most other places, stocks aren’t taxed until they’re sold. Once a transaction happens, there will be a tax. Usually tax rates go up with profits and income, and there are deductions for losses (to a degree). It’s an okay system, the issue is that it isn’t being enforced. Our system is full of loopholes that these billionaires exploit to pay way less than they should. But billionaires not paying taxes are nothing compared to corporations not paying ANY taxes on billions in annual profits. That’s what we should go after.

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7 points
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Just spitballing here.

As you said, right now, you only pay taxes on profits at the time stocks are sold. Which means I could gather billions in “wealth” and never cash in, thus never pay a single dollar in taxes.

Suppose we would change how taxes are paid on stock profits. What if you had to pay taxes on yearly profits every year? This way, you can cash out at any time, because the tax is already paid. It would work just like regular income tax. Deductions and losses on the market would still apply.

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14 points

The issue with this idea is that it doesn’t reflect how stocks work. Think about it like this: Owning a stock is like owning a block of gold. The value of the gold can go up or down. One year the value of your gold block could double and another year it could half. However, the actual value of your gold won’t be determined until you actually sell it. The tax your proposing isn’t a tax on wealth, but rather a tax on exchange rates. Besides if the stocks aren’t cashed then no harm is done. That money is being used and invested by the business.

I don’t think the issue is with the things we tax. We have good tax policy on that. The issue is that the system is flawed because corporations keep lobbying for new loopholes. If you want to see billionaires and corporations pay their faire share then we have to go after these loopholes. There should absolutely zero reason why individuals like you and me pay more in taxes than corporations like Salesforce, Nike, and FedEx. I’m not even talking about percentages here, we literally pay a larger monetary amount than they do. Actually some of these corporations get rebates for their profits. These are the type of things we should go after. We have to dig through the tax code, find every loophole, and hound our politicians to close them… And oh, not open new ones.

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5 points

If we’re just talking fantasies that we wish America would make reality, I would like to see it be way harder for the filthy rich to manipulate the stock market instead of rewarding them with day trading exemptions and tax breaks make them pay more to day trade as their trades are more volatile to the markets, make it way easier for the poor to enter into stock ownership of real street name stocks without having to have in depth knowledge of trading, and cherry-on-top ban short selling outright and require locates for all trades.

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6 points
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Something doesn’t add up for me, maybe I’m missing it.

The stock market (as I understand it) works on the premise that you buy some shares of the company. That money goes to the company, and they use it to improve their tools/processes/etc, in order to better compete with the rest of the market and turn a higher profit. This in turn makes your shares worth more, because the company is worth more.

You’re saying people can get taxed yearly on the growth of the shares - okay, understood. But here’s my question:

  1. If the market dips this year (or the company has a bad year) and the stock owner doesn’t sell the shares, they are now worth less. Will the government reimburse the tax at the end of the year?

  2. If yes - then we fix nothing, right? We even make it worse, because now we have to track everyone’s stock. That’ll generate a lot of meaningless work.

  3. If no, then we’re taxing every yearly gain no matter how small, but still asking stock owners to take a risk and continue to own that stock. Who would ever want to invest anymore, when potential gains are taxed before you even have a chance to withdraw them (not to mention where do you come up with the money to pay taxes if you don’t sell the stocks) but losses are not compensated, and you still hold all the risk? Every stock exchange would crash and burn, with nobody investing anymore, but even worse - selling all stock before that first year runs out and they’re taxed for it. All companies that are publicly traded would basically be worthless overnight. It’d lead to another great depression, no?

I’m really not very understanding of this field, but I can’t find another option here that would actually end well. Am I missing something?

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2 points

How do they have cash on hand to do stuff then?

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2 points

What I’ve seen is that they’re essentially taking loans against their stocks - The banks know you’re good for it, so they’re willing to lend you a ton at super low rates. Then you just pay interest forever and it’ll never catch up to the principal within your lifetime.

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8 points

There are loopholes to help them out. For example, they could take out loans against their wealth, and do whatever they need that way. The money isn’t taxed, and the terms of these loans are usually very favorable towards the billionaires since their connections go deep.

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1 point

They do, just not that much of it when compared to their real wealth.

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