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181 points

Remember, we know how to address many of the world’s problems, including poverty, homelessness, and climate change.

But those with capital in society choose not to.

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1 point
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-13 points

Remember that politics can be changed with votes. Tax them to finance change.

It’s difficult, but blaming billionaires takes away our agency.

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4 points

The tail has been wagging the dog for quite some time now

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-1 points

It’s not just a matter of reversing power.

Billionaires lead. Regular citizens would massively have to change their lives if they want to change that.

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21 points
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If we could change politics by voting, we wouldn’t be allowed to vote.

We’re not stretched thin to finance these changes. Taxes aren’t holding us back. This is what those with true power in society and their cronies say to not do anything. This is the whole point.

No one is only blaming “billionaires.” This is you patronizing them, portraying yourself as a genius and the person you’re responding to as too naive and stupid to understand how life really works.

And no, we don’t have agency. We have a deluded sense of agency where we think we can vote and change the system from within.

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1 point

I don’t like this logic because it’s predicated on an nondescript “they” with unlimited shadowy power. It leads to unhelpful conspiratorial thinking bordering on the magical. It obfuscates the real problems we face, and if we don’t understand them, even a violent revolution to defeat it would eventually replicate the system we destroyed because we didn’t understand how it came to be in the first place.

The reason it’s hard to change the system is because the system is self-reinforcing through individuals acting in their own immediate best interests and not acting as a class, not because “they wouldn’t let you change it, they’d just [rig the elections/not let you vote/kill you with a space laser]”. But that’s a complex answer, and it’s much easier to believe in the latter and call it a day.

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2 points

There are levels. Voters don’t have agency. But if voters would coordinate they would have agency.

The difference is believing in agency.

I am aware how stupid I sound. But how else can I phrase it that there needs to be a believe in change to create change? Right now I just hope that readers ignore the stupid part.

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4 points

Remember that politics can be changed with votes. Tax them to finance change.

I agree the wealthy need to pay a lot more in tax than they currently do.

They also have disproportionate control over the electoral process in many countries, and most political parties are not even considering taxing them to the extent that they need to be taxed. Nor are most political parties challenging our capitalist society in any significant sense.

Voting is important, but don’t expect voting alone to solve our problems.

It’s difficult, but blaming billionaires takes away our agency.

No it does not. Sod off with that. Correctly identifying a major contributor to an issue does not take away agency.

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-2 points

What but voting should solve the problems? You won’t stage a revolution.

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51 points

Those with capital choose not to

Those with capital profit off of not doing so.

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1 point

And make sure their propaganda gets pushed as truth and that any opposition to it will lead to genocide and prison camps

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3 points

In most cases, yes; but in this case in particular, with UBI increasing the buying power of the poor, those with capital would actually profit off of implementing such a service. No, this one boils down to good old fashioned classism.

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30 points
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Like the one recent CEO saying the quiet part aloud by saying government should promote higher unemployment, since in the high employment environment employees aren’t desperate and have more demands costing him money. That employees arent feeling enough pain and despair in economy.

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12 points

To be fair, this isn’t that far away from the economic theory underlying using interest rates to manage inflation - it’s just phrased in a different way.

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10 points

I recently heard it phrased like this:

Capitalism is built on hierarchy, which means someone fundamentally NEEDS to be at the bottom. There is no way around it, someone needs to suffer.

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0 points

Conservatism is built on hierarchy. Capitalism just says markets work and investment is gambling. You can do that and still keep everyone fed / clothed / sheltered, specifically because markets work, and can make food / clothes / shelter more plentiful. Some people having more doesn’t require private space station versus duplex cardboard box.

Conservatives only say market failure demands misery and successful gambling means unchecked power because that’s what they always say. That’s their only conclusion, applied to literally everything. That’s how conservatives think things work. The entire tribal worldview boils down to “well somebody’s gotta be king.” Just a fractal pyramid of militaries over empire, rulers over courts, owners over workers, and patriarchs over families. If you’re at the bottom you’re lucky to be alive, and how dare you question your betters.

The unspoken assumption is that change is impossible. This is genuinely how they think everything works. Like the universe itself dictates a steep gradient, and the only way things could be different is by shuffling around who goes where. So if someone is suffering, they must have fucked up to deserve it, and if you want to help them, you’re putting someone else in their place.

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5 points

But if we raised the bottom up enough, it wouldn’t really matter if they were on the bottom. Many people would be happy if they had a stable place to live, food, healthcare, and freedom, and many don’t really need or even want “more” all the time. The problem is the vast differences in wealth and ownership.

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2 points

I don’t think that this is really true.

If someone has “more” then yes of course someone needs to have “less”, merely by definition.

The question is really whether those with less are living below the poverty line or living comfortably. I guess it’s a question of semantics whether “capitalism” requires people to be living below the poverty line but I don’t think it does. It’s just shitty regulations which allow wealth to become as concentrated as it has.

Socialism in principle sounds great, but most times it’s been implemented it’s suffered from the same problem as capitalism - the people with power are greedy and use their power to manipulate and oppress the populace.

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-35 points

Because most of us have our own problems and don’t feel responsible for the lives of others.

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0 points

That is false. Most of us aren’t sociopaths like you.

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6 points

Who is “us”? Unless you’re politically well connected or have nine figures in the bank, you aren’t wielding significant power to make systemic changes.

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-1 points

“Us” the people who pay taxes and are hypothetically responsible for paying for UBI.

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12 points

You, like the vast majority of people, are (almost certainly) not included in “those with capital”

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20 points

Now imagine if you lived in a society where someone gave a shit about your problems. And maybe they even have the skills and resources to fix them more efficiently than you would. Or not, does it matter, theyre willing to help.

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-24 points

That would be wonderful but that’s not what we’re discussing.

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-38 points

But those with capital in society choose not to.

That’s a good 80% of the population

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6 points

Except that’s just false. I actually cannot fathom where you pulled that estimate from.

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-6 points

You can argue that national poverty lines are made to be kept under a certain percentage, sure, then we can ignore that. Globally, yes, the majority doesn’t have capital (as in financial capital), but per country, there are stark differences. More things to consider

Especially GNI PPP: if you live in Europe, North America, Australia, China, Japan, and a few other countries, there’s a good chance you belong to the global 20% of high income earners. The minimum wage in your country will probably be higher than what a low income family earns in a year

For the current 2024 fiscal year, low-income economies are defined as those with a GNI per capita, calculated using the World Bank Atlas method, of $1,135 or less in 2022; lower middle-income economies are those with a GNI per capita between $1,136 and $4,465; upper middle-income economies are those with a GNI per capita between $4,466 and $13,845; high-income economies are those with a GNI per capita of $13,846 or more.

https://datahelpdesk.worldbank.org/knowledgebase/articles/906519-world-bank-country-and-lending-groups

Can you fathom?

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12 points

Are you saying that 80 percent of society owns the means of production?

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-3 points

Capital != means of production

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16 points

Ah yes. 80. Wealth to scale

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-6 points

So because somebody has a lot, you have nothing? Because somebody has a house worth 5M and don’t have a house, means you have no dwelling? Because somebody earns 10x what you have, you have no income?

“They have more capital than I do, therefore I have none”.

“A person with more capital than I chose to vote and lobby, that means my vote is null and void and so are my efforts”.

“There’s no point in doing anything ever if somebody else is better at it”.

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