They exchanged text messages and emojis. Brief status updates with words of encouragement. A picture of the beloved family dog “Tutsi.”

Until no more messages came.

And then, Cindy Flash, an American, and her Israeli husband Igal vanished into the violence, presumed kidnapped by Hamas.

Four days after Hamas attacked Israel, more than 100 Israelis and potentially dozens of foreign nationals are thought to be held captive in the Gaza Strip. At least 14 U.S. citizens have been killed and an unknown number are still unaccounted for.

Flash, 67, originally from St. Paul, Minnesota, is one of them. She lives in Kfar Aza, a kibbutz in southern Israel near Gaza, where some of the most harrowing and grisly stories have been emerging during the last few days.

“They are breaking down the safe room door,” Flash said in one of her final messages to her daughter Keren, 34. “We need someone to come by the house right now.” She had been communicating with her parents from a few houses away.

Keren described her mother, who worked as an administrator in a local college, as someone who had the “sweetest biggest heart,” who everyone knew and loved, and who had spent a lifetime advocating for the rights of Palestinians, including those who live in Gaza where she may now be held.

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199 points

Hamas ≢ Palestine

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3 points
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Hamas ≢ Palestine

Ok, but how truish are “Hamas ≠ Palestine” and “Hamas ≈ Palestine”? At what point do we draw the line?

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-2 points

Questions: Who is fighting for Hamas? From where the “boots on the ground” come from? How can they organise amidst civilian population to take any coordinated actions?

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3 points
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Assuming that your questions are rhetorical and that you are placing blame on all Palestinian citizens for the actions of Hamas. By the same logic, all Americans are guilty for the Jan 6th attack on the capital and all the other horrific acts America have committed around the world.

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0 points

No, my questions are not rethorical. Any such movement cannot live separated from the local population. They cannot organise in secret if nobody is keeping that secret. They cannot train if the others don’t keep the secret. They cannot manufacture, hide and launch thousands of small range rockets if other don’t keep a secret.

I’m not arguing about justifications or who did what and why. It’s not relevant for this discussion.

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-71 points

Palestinians knew who they were when they elected them.

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85 points

Israel knew who Netanyahu was when they elected him.

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-51 points

Sure. And Netanyahu is a right-wing asshole. But he isn’t a terrorist.

You see the difference?

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63 points

Hamas was never elected as sole leadership in Palestine. They never won a plurality of votes, ever.

They formed a unity government, then fought the other government, usurped control, and cancelled elections forever.

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13 points

Hamas won 74 out of 132 seats. They did it with 44 percent of the vote. Not sure how that worked.

Anyway, you’re kind of right, kind of wrong.

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9 points

And the Palestinian authority is really a puppet government that Israel allows Palestine to have, so it’s not like any available option is really good

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8 points

This should be said more often and more forcefully, as its knowledge people (including myself) are not generally aware of.

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55 points

20 years ago. Around half of today’s population didn’t vote and of the ones that did many didn’t vote for hamas. Find a new way to blame innocent people, this one doesn’t work.

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44 points

Half of the population is below 19 years old. So they weren’t even born when Hamas was elected.

The average age of Palestinians is 19. The average age of Israelis is 30. That tells you one thing, that you don’t live a long life if your Palestinian.

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0 points
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17 points
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50% of the persons living in palestina are under 18

Edit: had a stroke

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-20 points

Yeah. I wish their parents loved them more than they hate Israel.

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-81 points

Yet Israel government=all Israelis is fine to you

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59 points

The article clearly states “advocate for Palestinians, then Hamas came for her” like it’s some “voting for the face eating leopards” situation. It’s a valid distinction. Also, no, the Israeli army isn’t all Israelis.

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-25 points

It’s hard to see the difference between Palestinians and Hamas when they had a pro Palestine rally in my city and their signs were peppered with “death to all Jews” and pictures of Jewish caricatures being hanged.

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55 points
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no it’s not, where the fuck did I wrote that?

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40 points

where did he say that?

sick of you fuckers not letting people feel complexly about this. fuck off

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