I think it’s pretty obvious one side is operating totally outside of reality where the other is not. Are democrats peddling stolen election lies and denying the existence of COVID?
I’m not saying anything negative Democrats or doing any comparison on idiologies. I feel like echo chambers keeping politics in their own little bubbles is bad for everyone. I just wanted your opinion on echo chambers being applicable to both sides. Don’t know why I can’t ask a question without getting down voted.
It’s because the way you are posing questions is disingenuous. It’s an article about issues with the Republican party and voter base and you turn around and go, “well, yeah, but there are two sides so Democrats must be the same right???” It’s like you can’t even discuss the topic at hand, you have to make it a “both sides” thing.
But sure, I’ll bite. Do Democrats have huge numbers of talk radio stations, shitty news stations, and grifting facebook pages all pushing the same bullshit? Because Republicans do, and they all for some reason talk about the same shit in the same way. You can hem and haw about how MSNBC could be more “neutral,” but it doesn’t hold a candle to the ridiculousness of Fox News. And if it did, don’t worry, we’ve still got OANN to talk about.
Democratic echo chambers amount to “we don’t like you saying racial slurs in our forum,” where Republican echo chambers amount to “don’t you dare post that scientific study or countermand the will of the Great Leader.” They aren’t the same, no matter how desperate you are to equivocate.
don’t you dare post that scientific study or countermand the will of the Great Leader
Post something about transgender athletes in women’s sports, or how boarder protections are a positive. You’ll get smashed to bits in the exact same way.
The echo chambers are there for both side and reasonable discussion of middle ground has been eliminated from American discourse.
What do you feel are the problematic issues stemming from the “dem echo chamber”?
Oooh, can I play?
Tribalism is the real problem and the echo chambers are where it’s fostered. The inability to see a fact, event, or report clearly without blue-tinted glasses can stand in the way of progress.
Of course a segment of the right has some weird issues with accepting science as fact – or facts as facts. It wasn’t long ago this fringe population was ignored and isolated while mainstream middle America politics existed (relatively) out in the open. The echo chamber everyone is living in right now is this - social media. This is not reality. This is not you and I sitting down and having a face-to-face chat about our lives and experiences and how we can agree and disagree on things regardless of who we’ve voted for.
Our extreme political polarization exists because of the internet. The internet is not where we’re going to solve this problem. Just because we generally all agree that “the left” is right correct, arguing over facts and truths with people who’s primary objective is to reject them is not going to foster progress. Arguing over what laws should exist in one state and not another and if the Constitution even allows for such laws is not going to be resolved in a Xweet. You may win the battle but the war will certainly carry on without you.
The “dem echo chamber” is made up of virtue signaling propaganda (as is MAGA). It’s selling rally towels outside a football game and people are just there to have a good time cheering along for their team. The teams are dressed in red and blue but the QB is still rich and the D-Line is still poor.
I also feel like the left’s use of social media to call out the stupidity and malice and atrocities of the right strengthens the right’s defenses and their numbers. What in the past may have been a small story in a local paper now can become an international headline within minutes. I generally think this is a good thing but there’s a lot of overly sensitive people who feel like the internet is reality and they can be susceptible to intimidation and bullying. As the echo bounces around the left’s chamber, the right aren’t getting weaker, they’re getting stronger.
“Facts” aside, I see very little difference in the echo chambers and tribalism.
Which brings us to the right’s issue with facts. To be brief, there was a study that showed brains of conservatives are actually a little different than those of liberals. Conservatives are more protective. They’re afraid of change and threats to their families and communities. They have real not-invalid concerns. So, when presented with actual facts and science that attack their stance and weaken their protections, they’re going to fight harder, even is that means using “fantasy” as their reality to “prove” you wrong.
The problem with these echo chambers and tribalism is that people are locking themselves in and forgoing real world conversations that involve vulnerability, humility, and negotiations. No one is interested in taking the time to give the other person a chance to step outside their echo chamber. All they want is to be right and to convince the other they’re wrong.
Now, to be fair, I do not have an answer as to what to do about literal textbook definition fascists trying to take control of our government. If I were a more well educated about WWII, I might have an idea about what not to do.
People have called me out in the past for being an idealist and that I’m not considering the reality of the situation. I feel pretty strongly that the issue is people not stepping outside their echo chambers to take a look at the reality they actually have control over. I also feel very strongly that Ranked Choice Voting would quell the vast majority of the polarization found in politics and social issues.
It’s not about “dem echo chambers” to me it’s about echo chambers in general. The problems I think they cause are more devision, less ability to reflect on held beliefs, and make it difficult to have conversations or debates with those who old different beliefs. Again this is specific to echo chambers in general.
The idea that all Republicans are literal Nazis who can’t be worked with.
I think anyone can be in an eco chamber regardless of your political beliefs. I think it is less likely for Democrats as their news isn’t just a single channel that has been proven to not be news.
Right wing news is from the limited sources it is because those are the only sources that will align with their biases. Most other news sources align with center-left or farther left biases depending on the source. This is very much about the market - the largest population centers tend to lean left so there’s a bigger market, it comes down to whether an outlet is trying to get a smaller slice of a much larger pie or a bigger slice of the smaller pie that right wing outlets share - it’s a lot easier to get a big market share when there’s less competition.
For an example of the sorts of biases you see - let’s look at hate crimes against Asians resulting from COVID.
Left leaning sources would upsell that increase in hate crimes, but weirdly avoid using any specific examples or saying anything about who was perpetuating them other than some vague statements about “white supremacy” and blaming the increase on Trump calling COVID a Chinese virus. Well, until one day when all the talk about it started using one specific example of a white guy hate criming an Asian, but that was a couple months after they’d started talking about the topic.
Right leaning sources would ignore or avoid the topic until they couldn’t get away with that any more. Then they focused on who was doing said hate crimes, because by the numbers it was mostly black-on-Asian hate crime, and blacks being criminals is aligned with their biases. This is the same reason why left leaning sources tried to avoid who was doing the hate crimes against Asians until they had a prominent example with a white perp - it’s hard to sell black folks acting in the name of white supremacy, and blacks being criminals is not aligned with their biases.
Democrats are just denying that neoliberalism and capitalism are destroying the planet.
The democratic party is a coalition party ranging from the neoliberals all the way to anarchists and everything in between. In general, the people that are nominated are controlled by the party establishment but the people that vote range from a variety of left biases. After all, the Democrats are the only decent conservative party left in this country.
The Democrat’s establishment is what matters in these conversations, and yes they refuse to acknowledge that the root causes of climate change is late stage neoliberal capitalism.
There is a definite difference in magnitude / severity but there is a similarity in partisan thinking.
Many on “the left” still believe Trump coordinated with Russia in his election for example. And that Russia was instrumental in that win.
And I keep seeing"the left" talking punishing people for protected speech, etc.
Pretending one side is “virtuous” and fighting the “pure evil” of the other side is an attribute of both sides.
Partisanship doesn’t like nuance. As indicated by all the down votes I’m about to receive.
Many on “the left” still believe Trump coordinated with Russia in his election for example. And that Russia was instrumental in that win
Anyone who actually read the Mueller report knows this to be true
The report which concludes on page 173 that
Ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities.
?
Many on “the left” still believe Trump coordinated with Russia in his election for example. And that Russia was instrumental in that win.
2020:
The Senate Intelligence Committee has released the final report from its bipartisan investigation into Moscow’s interference in the 2016 U.S. election.
The committee spent more than three years working on it, investigating Russia’s interference, as you said, in the 2016 election. They reviewed more than a million documents, documents that were provided by U.S. spy agencies as well as documents that were provided by witnesses. They also interviewed witnesses - hundreds of them, including a lot of familiar names - Donald Trump Jr., former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort but also former Obama administration officials.
And all of that digging has gone into this report, and the committee concludes that Russia conducted a sophisticated and aggressive campaign to influence the U.S. election to help Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton and that folks on Team Trump were more than happy to accept help from the Russians. But what’s really important about that conclusion is that it is a bipartisan one. It is endorsed by both Democrats and Republicans.
This report is, to a large extent, something that reaches the same conclusion that Mueller did on the question of Russia’s interference. And the committee didn’t draw a conclusion on whether the Trump campaign conspired or colluded with Russia. What the committee did instead was lay out the facts that they found and then kind of leave it to the reader to make up their own mind. Some committee Republicans, in an annex to the report, declared that there was no evidence that the Trump campaign colluded. Democratic members, in contrast, called Russia’s actions and the Trump team’s openness to them, quote, “one of the single most grave counterintelligence threats in modern American history.”
(Emphasis mine)
It’s not that far-fetched at all to think that the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia in 2016.
If you go by the results of this investigation, it’s equally as wrong to assert that they didn’t.
It’s not that far-fetched at all to think that the Trump campaign coordinated with Russia in 2016.
Yet it’s not what the investigation into that question concluded.
