Sorry Python but it is what it is.

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125 points
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55 points

npm is objectively worse. Base pip packages aren’t getting hijacked.

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23 points

Maybe I’m misremembering, but didn’t pip have it’s own security concerns earlier this year?

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6 points

I believe that was just name squatting.

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53 points

That’s not a controversial opinion. I’d say it’s worse than pip. At least pip doesn’t put nag messages on the console or fill up your hard drive with half a gigabyte of small files. OP is confused.

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12 points

npm is so good there are at least 3 alternatives and every package instructs on using a different one.

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1 point

About the only good thing about npm is that I can use one of the superior alternatives. Using npm is almost always a headache as soon as you start working with a decent number of packages.

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8 points
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In my experience npm is not great but it does work most of the time. I just tried installing bunch of stuff using pip and NONE of them worked. Python is backwards compatibility hell. Python 2 vs 3, dependencies missing, important libraries being forked and not working anymore. If the official installation instructions are ‘pip install X’ and it doesn’t work then what’s the point?

npm has A LOT of issues but generally when I do ‘npm i’ i installs things and they work.

But the main point is that cargo is just amazing :)

P.S. Never used ruby.

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42 points

Well there’s your problem lol.

Don’t use 2 for anything, it’s been “dead” for almost 4 years.

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7 points

The problem is 2 and modules for 2 still tend to worm their way in somehow. I always use python3 -m pip because I never trust that “pip” alone is going to be python3 pip and I think that’s what the people who have lots of trouble with pip aren’t doing.

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2 points

Ahh the blissful ignorance of not having to manage tech debt

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25 points

I don’t think it’s fair to blame pip for some ancient abandoned packages you tried to use.

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-3 points

The issues I had:

  • packages installing but not working due to missing dependencies
  • packages installing but not working due to broken dependencies (wrong lib version installed)
  • packages not building and failing with obscure errors
  • one package was abandoned and using Python 2.7

If a ‘pip install X’ completes successfully but X doesn’t work it’s on pip. And when it fails it could tell you why. Cargo does.

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8 points

Hmm, I personally haven’t seen that kind of issue myself though. I also tend to not use random packages from random authors though, so that might help.

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4 points
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2 points

The main issue with JS is that every 6 months someone comes up with the next great tool that misses half of basic features and dies after 6 months when someone comes up with the next great tool. But at least the old tested solution still works unlike in Python where the main goal seems to be breaking the backwards compatibility as often as possible.

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2 points
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I’d personally take PECL over npm and I loathe PECL.

Composer, though, is excellent.

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-2 points
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Sorry but nah. My last job we had a couple different python microservices. There was pipenv, venv, virtualenv, poetry, Pipfile.lock, requirements.txt (which is only the top level???), just pure madness

Apparently all this shit is needed because python wants to install shit globally by default? Are you kidding?

Well, we also had a couple node microservices. Here’s how it went: npm install. Done.

Afraid you fucked something and want a clean environment? Here’s how you do it with node: delete node_modules/. Done.

Want a clean python env? Uhhhhhhhh use docker I guess? Maybe try reinstalling Python using homebrew? (real actual answers from the python devs who set these up)

Well what’s currently installed? ls node_modules, or use npm ls if you want to be fancy.

In python land? Uhhhhhh

Let’s update some dep–WHY AREN’T PYTHON PACKAGES USING SEMVER

So yeah, npm may do some stuff wrong, but it seems like it does way more shit right. Granted I didn’t really put in the effort to figure out all this python shit, but the people who did still didn’t have good answers. And npm is just straightforward and “works”.

“But JS projects pull in SOOOO many dependencies” Oh boohoo, you have a 1TB SSD anyway.

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14 points

Apparently all this shit is needed because python wants to install shit globally by default?

None of that was needed. It was just used because nobody at your company enforced a single standard for developing your product.

Afraid you fucked something and want a clean environment? Here’s how you do it with node: delete node_modules/. Done.

rm -rf venv/. Done.

Want a clean python env? Uhhhhhhhh use docker I guess?

python -m venv venv

Well what’s currently installed? ls node_modules, or use npm ls if you want to be fancy. In python land? Uhhhhhh

pip freeze. pip list if you want it formatted.

Let’s update some dep–WHY AREN’T PYTHON PACKAGES USING SEMVER

Janky, legacy python packages will have random versioning schemes. If a dependency you’re using doesn’t follow semver I would question why you’re using it and seek out an actively maintained alternative.

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3 points

Im honestly surprised someone using Python professionally appears to not know anything about how pip/venv work.

The points you think you are making here are just very clearly showing that you need to rtfm…

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-2 points

More like rtfms. I really didn’t feel like learning 20 different tools for repos my team didn’t touch very often.

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