Comment by MxM111@kbin.social on it'sjustamemepleasedon'thurtme

Are you sure it is not Hamas, that uses human shields?

Do we bomb banks when the robbers have hostages?

Killing civilians because they’re in the way is BAD. Reporting shows Iarael is making minimal efforts to limit civilians casualties. That’s a war crime. War crimes are bad.

I’m so fucking exhausted.

Edit: Before anybody tries a gotcha. Taking hostages and human shields are bad too. Multiple things can be bad at once.

I don’t think there is any doubt that war crimes have occurred on both sides of this conflict.

There are real word criminal situations when the hostages do suffer as result of police action.

And the only way to encourage the use of human shield during the war like now, is to criticize the other side for deaths. If Israel stops because of the use of human shields, because all of the pressure now amounts from different players without even criticism of Hamas then FOR SURE next time (and there will be next time) Hamas will use human shields even more and more people will die.

“without even criticism of Hamas”

I typed out an edit before you even commented about how two things can both be bad. I wish you read it.

Human shields aren’t being used because Israel has been too soft on Hamas. Extremism is created in places of oppression and desperation. To continue this genocide is to feed Hamas new members.

I would like for Isrealis to be safe. That isn’t going to happen by adding fuel to the fire.

Additionally, you’re justifying a genocide by saying it’s the only way to keep them safe.

Nah we don’t bomb banks, but if the robbers have been doing it for years yelling god is great, while massacring civilians , you too would expect someone to do something about it, or do we just put another lock on the bank hoping this time it will be enough.

Or we get rid of the circumstances that led to them becoming bank robbers.

Hamas does not just magically get support. People have been pushed to extremism by oppressive apartheid rule and genocide. TO BE CLEAR Hamas is bad and I am not justifying their actions. If you want to stop creating extremists you’re an idiot if you thinking harming a bunch of civilians in your attempt to wipe them out is going to help.

Neither is letting them fire rockets towards you for years on end. There is only so much you can do with bank robbers that are funded by others around them, who believe it’s their god given duty to rob banks. TO BE CLEAR civilians being killed is terrible on either side, just one side is putting a lot of effort into making bomb shelters and missile defense, while the other is putting in a lot of effort into creating tunnels to store and smuggle rockets.

In 2020 the US gave Isreal $3.8 billion. If you think Hamas is nearly as funded you’re bad at math. I’m down to give Hamas an iron dome.

Do you think the effort is going towards tunnels and rockets because they’re inherently evil or do you want to think about the variables that caused this situation. Variables like apartheid, genocide, Israel’s military advantage, etc.

The US likely thinks that the nation state that was established by the UN to provide a home for a people victimized by an attempt to eradicate Jews in Europe is worth defending. I’m no fan of any of this shit, but as someone else recently pointed out, if Hamas stops receiving funding, the likely result is less conflict. If Israel stops receiving funding, three likely result is that they will be wiped off the face of the earth in short order. I believe there is truth to that.

If the US had given Hamas $3.8 billion, it definitely wouldn’t have been used for an iron dome.

Yes I do believe Hamas is inherently evil, the same way I believe the north Korean leadership is evil.

Plenty of variables to take into account, and it’s understandable how they got like this, but the same way a lot of serial killers have an abusive upbringing, does not mean everyone with an abusive upbringing will be a serial killers.

What a fairy tale solution. Too bad it only works in fairy tales.

It’s a “fairy tale” to think that increasing the oppression that created extremists in the first place is going to suddenly stop radicalizing people.

you too would expect someone to do something about it, or do we just put another lock on the bank hoping this time it will be enough

Americans have been shooting down each other in schools with guns for years. Don’t see anyone doing anything about it…

Oh, no, here they come…a professional army can’t do anything against the tactics of some tiny and cornered terrorist organization and needs to kill 10 thousand civili…I mean “human shields”. So lame…

Oh no a professional army is doing something to protect its civilians, how dare they shoot back.

There is a difference between doing something and doing war crimes.

Something doesn’t need to include callous indifference to the killing of civilians and children.

There is a difference between war crimes and what the internet calls war crimes. Did you know it’s actually not a war crime to shoot at a hospital if there are military assets in it? That’s actually in the Geneva convention. Same goes for civilians if there are military targets present. On the other hand, using hospitals and civilians to protect military assets is a war crime.

Yes, there is the moral aspect of it, but one side here is being called out for war crimes it’s not actually doing.

The Geneva convention still requires that all possible measures are taken to limit civillian casualties and that the harm of civillians need to be in relation to the military goal achieved.

There is many reasons to question that Israel is taking these steps. It starts with the medical system of Gaza already being past its limits, so any hit on a hospital is especially severe, as it renders the medical system even more unable to provide basic health care to people. It continues with deliberate cuts to telecommunication, so warnings are not reaching the civillians at targeted hospitals, regular attacks of designated evacuation corridors by the IDF, including targeting ambulances and the simple fact that you cannot evacuate an overburdendend ICU in 15 minutes if you have no place to take the patients or ambulances to get them there.

It goes on with there being no independant evaluation if Israels claims of military targets are actually factful, while there is plenty of reports where it seemed that only civillians have been it. Furthermore the language used by the IDF and Israeli government speaks opposite of protecting civillian lifes. From fighting against “human animals” to discussing nuclear attacks on Gaza by a government minister, who is still in his position afterwards.

Finally and most evidently the total blockade of Gaza in the first weeks and the continued limits to basic goods such as drinking water, food and medical supplies, with a continued blockade of fuel and targeting of electrical and water infrastructure is a huge fucking war crime. There is no basis in the Geneva convention that could justify depriving more than two million people of the immediate necessities for survival. It is a war crime through and through. Even after four weeks of international pressure the amount of food and water that gets to Gaza is still far too little to keep the population from starving.

It goes on with there being no independant evaluation if Israels claims of military targets are actually factful, while there is plenty of reports where it seemed that only civillians have been it.

So you’re trusting the terrorists to tell you Israel has hit their members, but not a western country to tell you that they hit the terrorists?

with a continued blockade of fuel

Hamas has plenty of fuel. Nobody is condemning them for not sharing it with their own people

and targeting of electrical and water infrastructure is a huge fucking war crime.

Can you source that? So far Hamas has been the biggest destroyer of water infrastructure by digging up all the water pipes to use for rockets. As for electrical, Israel didn’t need to hit it. They simply stopped giving free resources to their enemy and Hamas stole whatever fuel was left.

The Geneva Convention’s definition of genocide. “… any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group, such as: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; © Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”

You seem to defend a and b as necessary costs of doing business. Isreal’s frequent attacks on civilians, journalists, medical personnel, and humanitarian groups seem to conflict this. Look into the killings of clearly marked journalists.

I’d argue that c is met by Isreal’s control of Gaza’s water and power along with the targeting of hospitals.

The Geneva Convention on collective penalties. “No protected person may be punished for any offense he or she gas not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.”

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