Dude’s an ultra
Bonus: https://nitter.net/uncle_authority/status/1721967810241335347#m
I guess the Deprogram guys are the Three Stooges now? But the joke doesn’t really work
I mean no, it’s not. The main anti-colonial group left in Gaza, which is massively popular, is an organization whose primary driving force is Islam. Religion is an incredibly important cultural force that is a key driving factor for Gazans and other Palestinian people in this fight. That is a materialist analysis of the situation lol because that is what the Palestinians themselves are saying. Just look at the wording used by the people there: the dead aren’t the dead but ‘martyrs’, and this isn’t just a conflict but a ‘jihad’ (righteous fight).
Hakim is very correctly noting the obvious here in that a vast majority of the Palestinians are Muslim and that their faith is a primary driver of this conflict for them. Painting in broad strokes isn’t denying that there aren’t any secular Palestinians, but talking about how Palestinians are fighting back and resisting in aggregate / at a zoomed out level.
an organization whose primary driving force is Islam
What Islam? A collection of beliefs? A set of believers?
The defining contention of materialism is that ideas are not the primary driver of history. Hakim’s post says, without qualification, that Islam is the driving force of the resistance.
The backflips folks are doing in this thread (including obliterating the very distinction between the ideal and the material, which is revisionism) to reconcile these two blindingly obvious, incompatible things are incredible.
That is a materialist analysis of the situation lol because that is what the Palestinians themselves are saying
Self-report (unadorned by any commentary or context, even) is ‘material analysis’ now? What?
Saying that the primary driving force behind Hamas is Islam is literally the exact opposite of material analysis.
Colonized people will resist their occupiers regardless of beliefs. The point isn’t that religion isn’t important to the people of Palestine, or that they can’t or shouldn’t find purpose or comfort in it. We should still not pretend that it’s the specific ideas they believe in that compels them to resist their occupiers.
Except it is the specific idea that compels them to resist their occupiers. Because they say it is. Saying otherwise is doing literally exactly the same thing that white Americans did that caused indigenous native Americans to have to change their practices, which they did not see as religious, to fit into the western white European understandings of the word ‘religion’ in order to receive government funding. Even if a Marxist or materialist analysis of the situation says in general that oppressed peoples ‘usually’ or ‘always’ react a specific way because of a specific force, you’re missing the point that that is a scientific theory. It is an abstraction. That does not mean it is reality or the only way of viewing a situation.
Your understanding of the situation and how it fits in with your worldview is different than the point of view of the Palestinians actually experiencing the situation. Again, I want to point you to the broad literature of the study of religion that shows just exactly what happens when dudes with white, western ideas of how the world works try to impose those on native indigenous populations.
Your point of view of how the situation works, or your understanding of the powers at play, is not reality. That is your interpretation of reality, a very useful abstraction that is very usually right. But that abstraction has contexts where it is appropriate to apply it, and contexts where it is inappropriate to apply it. And trying to apply it to deny the very real primary motivation that Palestinian people say is motivating them is not a great place to apply that abstraction.
The comment you’re responding is taking the opposite stance of what you’re accusing it of, it’s noting the importance of Islam, not trying to impose some sort of colonial mindset on the Palestinians.
But its point seems to be it really doesnt make much sense to read the Quran to understand the conflict when reading history or Lenin on imperialism or something would be far more useful. Maybe the Quran could give an interesting and more intimate perspective, but most westerners would be better served by history. Also the Palestinian struggle has been ongoing for a while and Hamas is not the only way to approach the conflict - even in the current conflict they are not the only ones involved.
Yeah, and what happened to the secular forces, I wonder? Did they just lack the stick-to-it-ness powers granted by religion, or were they actively trampled by forces that wanted the conflict in the region to have an ethnoreligious character?
