Timothy Murray lost his father earlier this year and had been asking his principal for counseling when she called in the police

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30 points

I am pretty sure that body autonomy and a women being able to make her own choices about when to start a family are why we support a woman’s right to choose.

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-13 points

There is a multitude of reasons why people support abortion. One of the common arguments is that it is better to not exist than to be born poor or to parents that don’t want you (I.e literally the “born to the wrong vagina” argument). This is a widely supported belief and I would say that around 20 percent of pro-choice people I’ve debated (out of hundreds) use it as their primary argument.

Asserting that there is a single reason why people hold a position is absurd.

FYI bodily autonomy arguments have largely been abandoned in academic ethics, because there is just no existing right to bodily autonomy that is sufficiently strong, and we have no basis for arguing that there should be.

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4 points

Absolutely Parents who do not want to have a baby should not be forced to carry one to term. It ain’t some angel that came down and inhabited the womb that should be laminted as lost.

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-2 points

“It ain’t some angel”

But it’s a human, and we don’t find engaging in active killing of humans permissible do we?

I also love that as a pretty open atheist, PC will constantly try to insinuate a religious motivation (even though most PL religious people don’t use the ensoulment argument either).

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2 points

Maybe that’s just because it makes sense to not want a massive amount of expenses in a life where they may have trouble taking care of themselves already.

You really act like it’s a bad thing to not have children if you can’t financially take care of them.

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-7 points

And none of these have to do with targeted killing of human organisms based solely on the circumstances of their conception?

You don’t get to play “the conservatives want to kill and imprison poor children” card, when pro-choice liberals celebrate the exact same thing (not pro-life ones like me).

“You really act like it’s a bad thing to not have children if you can’t financially take care of them”

This argument falls in the same category of logic error that the “abortion is good because it prevents children from being poor” that I am refuting.

The fact that it is bad for people to be poor, does not follow that they should therefore be deprived of existence, because existence is not the cause of suffering but the poverty. When someone says “I wish I wasn’t poor”, they are NOT saying “I wish I didn’t exist” because they could easily make that happen. They are wishing that they had less hardship.

Likewise your argument is also a failure at descriptivism. Not having children for financial reasons, is not immoral. Abortion is not just “not having children”, it is an active deprivation of all future experiences of an existing human organism. That’s why it’s immoral. (And yes trying to argue that fetuses aren’t people is insufficient since one can argue from idealized persons {e.g we don’t kill mentally ill suicidal people because an idealized person wouldn’t want to die, in other words the immediate condition of the human is gladly ignored), or cases of temporary loss of personhood (regardless of how you define it) which would permit killing many if not all adults.

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1 point

there is just no existing right to bodily autonomy that is sufficiently strong

What the fuck is this? Just stop posting.

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1 point

I already showed that there wasn’t if you actually read anything. Nobody seriously contested it.

Funny that the geniuses here haven’t been able to do something that has been largely abandoned in ethics.

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