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In school I had to take Business Ethics. The processor officially renamed the course to Ethical Issues in Business, because, as he explained it in class, business has no ethics, but ethical issues arise all the time. I took it to mean that capitalism destroyed humanity, and those of us that are still left humane must deal with ethical issues in a business (ethicless) setting.

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21 points

I did not take business classes so limited background but if we assume that the US isnā€™t going to magically transition away from capitalism, we instead have to find a way to legislate a transition to a more ethical capitalism. That phrase seems to be an oxymoron but for things to not keep getting progressively worse Iā€™m thinking we as a society need to figure out a way to make it happen. Any ideas? You seem to have at least taken a course in the matter.

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16 points

What if we transition away from capitalism non-magically?

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5 points

I mean thatā€™s probably the preferred path but I canā€™t see how that realistically happens. There are too many individuals globally with too much to lose that will think their loss of capital is worth bringing down the whole human race. Iā€™m sure they would rather see the world in ashes rather than succeed under an alternate system where they may not be on top.

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1 point
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11 points
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The peopleā€™s job is to define ethics. The governmentā€™s job is to uphold that definition. Governments canā€™t be expected to define ethics on their own.

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2 points

And thatā€™s why capitalism is inherently unethical and immoral.

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-4 points
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(Assuming you arenā€™t misremembering): That honestly sounds like a really shitty professor.

Ethics are 100% a thing and more people need to improve their intelligence in that regard. What you CAN argue is that morality has no place in business (or engineering (or whatever)). But ethics are not morality or the law.

At this point, I think everyone and their mother is aware of the concept of The Trolley Problem. Andā€¦ that is pertinent for a reason. Are you going to send the metaphorical train careening into marginalized groups, your workers, your board, or even your family? Or, the inverse of that: Are you going to do something that means you can buy your kids really awesome xmas presents, your board new cars, your workers the nice ramen, or even a moment of lessened horror for trans forlk?

And that ignores the various types of ethics. Even under utilitarianism, there are arguments that you are making a better net good for your boardā€¦ if only because said marginalized groups suffer so much they will barely notice any relenting.

Improved understanding of what ethics actually are helps to understand WHY good (or more likely) bad things are happening. And it helps those who are in a position to make those decisions to make an intelligent and rational, if not necessarily good, decision.


Back in uni, all the engineering majors were required to take Ethics in Engineering. And it was very obvious who were the libertarian tech bros of the future during that course. But it also, honestly, is the most important course I took in undergrad and the one that has the most use.

And, as a result, when I do recruiting trips/lectures, I tend to cover that topic. I have a nice slide deck of some of the latest horrifying late stage capitalism shit to come out of tech companies as well as whistle blowing stories and I go through it with the students to try to make them think about why they are learning while also finding the people who would be fun to work with or mentor more directly.

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I didnā€™t say ethics had no place in business, nor that ethics wasnā€™t a thing. I said he renamed it, because business has no ethics. This is the same thing you were saying, but in a lot less words.

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-14 points

I realize words are scary, but maybe read them when you are going to reply to someone? Rather than just assume they must agree with you.

Again, business has ethics. Balancing your fiduciary responsibilities with personal gain (and, in rare instances, societal benefit) is an ethical challenge. Do you choose to strictly follow your contractual/legal responsibilities or do you try to find a way to circumvent that for good or for ill?

Yet again: Ethics are not morality

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