I remember coming across a post of tumblr where someone said that if a guy says his favorite movie/tv show is Breaking Bad, Rick and Morty or Fight Club, you should run immediately.
The reason was that while these are good works exploring complex, broken and often violent men, a certain subset (the kind of people who would claim that one of those was their favorite of all time) doesn’t have the reasoning ability to understand that they’re the villains of their universe and should not be idolized.
Rorschach easily fits within the same mold as Tyler Durden, Rick Sanchez and Walter White, a complex and entertaining protagonist who’s also a terrible person who no one should want to be.
That is a garbage reason to run immediately.
Tumblrtards are kind of infamous for magical thinking, often bordering on or just outright being delusional, being unimaginably pretentious, incredibly emotionally unstable, and absolutely loving to glom onto bandwagons of virtue signalling one-upsmanship as well as hate brigading ideas they dont understand and people that they dont like.
They often jump to conclusions ludicrously.
Here is what I mean. If a person’s favorite movie /is/ Fight Club, all you have to do is then ask them ‘why?’.
If you tell me your favorite movie is American Psycho, and the reason why is that you think its a gripping, iconic film criticizing the superficiality and violence of the chauvanistic capitalism of the late 80s…
…that is a lot different than if your reason is that Bateman is just so cool and crazy!
See the context of this ‘advice’ is ostensibly whether or not you should be a friend or partner of someone.
If you are deciding who to have in your circle by whether or not they like one of three objectively popular and excellent films, which are misunderstood by some, but not others…
…then you are actually being very shallow, and impersonal.
Superficial, even.
Right like with Rick and Morty I can tell you I loved the show for the first few seasons…
…but then its quality went down, culminating in the show eventually entirely abandoning one of its main foundational truisms:
Life is brutal, unpredictable and unfair.
The latest seasons of the show abandoned the total /randomness/ factor that defined the earliest episodes, and replaced it with much more standard… and structured plots.
The fanbase clamored over fan theories and details, anything to make there be a grand overarching plot, continuity, and eventually they got it.
But to me that is the show betraying itself. There isnt supposed to be continuity. It is supposed to be unpredictable. Most fans of the show entirely missed the point, and thus cringe ensued.
Now say what you will about my interpretation of the show here…
… but its a little more nuanced than uh, Rick is zany Pickle man.
And I dont think my interpretation indicates I am some kind of maladjusted chauvanist fascist.
And yet you ran into the point directly.
This isn’t magical thinking, as you said it yourself, either you like American psycho because of 0 media literacy (in which case we all agree you’re undesirable to date for a Tumblr user)
Or you like American psycho because of the reasons you cited, which mind you aren’t bad reasons to like it, but it makes you a film bro. To consider it amond your top movies means all you care about in media is how it made you think about society, and honestly if the most you’ve though about society was when watching American psycho then I can see why someone wouldn’t want to date you.
The Tumblr rule of thumb isn’t entirely about not dating bigots (though bigots do tend to be weeded out by this check which was kind of the point), it’s also about avoiding dating asshats in general. What does it say about you that you like Rick and Morty because you agree that life is brutal, unpredictable and unfair? What does it say in the context of someone debating whether they should date you?
Ok so you have said that:
If I have an interpretation of American Psycho that is that it is a critique of society… than this means I am only capable of criticizing society when watching a movie.
Well for one, no, that is not personally true of me, and most importantly, that is not even kind of logically valid to assume or infer.
If I read a book and have opinions about it, does that mean I do or do not have similar opinions of similar real world situations,? Does it mean I do or do not incorporate those opinions into other parts of my personality, or job, or activism or lack thereof?
No. Obviously no. To make that leap would be a vast overgeneralization.
Sure, some people have opinions about art and media, but it doesnt affect their actual lives and actions much. Other people have strong convictions that drive much of their lives, and have consistent views on art and media to go with them. Still others may have an obviously hypocritical view of a real world situation, or not even realize the similarity of a real world situation due to ideological blinders. And others are every other possible kind of something else.
You end with literally begging the question, the answer to which was my whole original point:
Dont use overgeneralizations and assumptions to assume you know what a person thinks, when you could just actually ask them what they think.
Look at all the assumptions you’ve made about a person over their opinions on two pieces of media. That is exactly the behaviour that was called out and you walked right into it.
Look, I love Fight Club. Fight Club is a big step in my process towards becoming less of an asshole. Worked as intended, 10/10, would reconsider my perception of the world again.
But even I can see how, particularly for a time in the 00s and sometimes beyond the examination of toxic masculinity became the iconification of toxic masculinity. It’s not “if they say it’s their favorite film, run”, it’s “man, on the aggegate all of those did the opposite of what they were ostensibly trying to do”.
Never, ever, ever underestimate the ability of the public to miss the point. Any interpretation of media, no matter how obvious and intented, will trigger “you’re just reading too much into it” or “leave your politics out of my movie” comments.
Also, I have terrible news about what your interpretation indicates, because yikes. It’s not that what you’re describing is inaccurate, it’s that “it was cool when it was hardcore, uncut nihilism justifying why the main character is right to be an asshole, and then it sold out” is not looking great for that armchair psychoanalysis you’re inviting.
But even I can see how, particularly for a time in the 00s and sometimes beyond the examination of toxic masculinity became the iconification of toxic masculinity. It’s not “if they say it’s their favorite film, run”, it’s “man, on the aggegate all of those did the opposite of what they were ostensibly trying to do”.
Never, ever, ever underestimate the ability of the public to miss the point. Any interpretation of media, no matter how obvious and intented, will trigger “you’re just reading too much into it” or “leave your politics out of my movie” comments.
I guess I don’t see why mass misinterpretation needs to be the final word on a film’s cultural impact (and/or moral value). Times change, people change, and ideas change, but the movie and the message of its creators is still there.
If your take away from my description of Rick and Morty is that Rick is justified in being a horrible asshole and that he is an good character who in general should be emulated, then uh yikes, you are reading that into what I wrote.
At no point did I state or even insinuate that Rick is some kind of ‘good’ character or role model.
For the record: its at least obvious to me that basically all the characters in Rick and Morty are so flawed that they often do extremely horrible things. Rick in particular is yes a nihlistic asshole, who is at least well enough developed that you can sympathize with him at times, but uh no he is obviously not some kind of role model.
I said the show in general was about brutal unpredictability.
Anyway, you managed to completely miss the point of what I said, and basically just bemoan that Fight Club got adopted by idiot chuds with a misinterpretation that justifies their worldview.
The person I am responding to gave a supposed quote from Tumblr saying ‘run if people have one of these movies as their favorite’ and my point was ‘thats reductive and superficial and impersonal, why not just ask them /why/ its their favorite movie?’
Then you come in and say that actually, what other fandoms did to the movies is so bad that it means the supposed Tumblr overgeneralization is in fact correct…
… which simply ignores my point that if you are trying to judge a person based on a favorite movie, you could actually be personable and ask them why.
The whole point I am making is that you shouldnt judge a book by its cover, and that there are legitimate reasons to have Fight Club as a favorite movie that do not mean a person is a chud, if only you would have a genuine conversation with another person to learn more about them.
But here you are, putting words in my mouth and shaming me for them on the one hand, and then just totally talking around my main point on the other hand.
You know, like a stereotypical Tumblrina.
I’m curious where you read the part “justifying the main character to be an asshole”?
But what if I answer that I liked American Psycho, not because it’s incredibly deep view masculinity of the 80’s and all that philosophical stuff, but because it’s funny.
Honestly I would say that that is a legit, if non nuanced take. The movie is absolutely hilarious if you have a dark sense of humor, so all I would really conclude about you personally is that you have a dark sense of humor.
I might be able to infer that you are not super into politics and social theory or whatever, but, you know, I would have to get to know you better to really know that one way or another.
What does it say about me that my favorite movie is, and I apologize in advance because I’m speaking genuinely, The Game?
