Comment by markstos@lemmy.world on Why can't I just buy it without being charged for preinstalled spyware?

Image description:

Shopping for a laptop as a Linux user:

Screenshot from the Simpsons where Otto is talking to Marge and Homer standing next to a window in their house with a caption “Oh wow, windows!.. I don’t think I can afford this place.”

Buy a Framework, System76 or something else with first class Linux support.

Love their concept but I just can’t afford it. My problem isn’t finding a machine that works well with Linux. It’s finding a machine that I can afford. And the stupid windows fee for something I will immediately uninstall is a big deal to me.

I think most Lenovo and dell computers provide you with the option to go without an OS or something like Ubuntu.

Only select top-end models in my country unfortunately.

Ubuntu is basically the only Linux distro I’ve seen offered on most computers from most if the big manufacturers.

Want something else? Install it yourself, or get a Slimbook or something similar to that.

Have you considered second hand? I’m not talking second hand specifically for framework or other mentioned brands, but just in general.

I feel it is not yet normalized to consider second hand for electronics, yet you can find quite some good deals. Not everything needs to be bought new, especially if you are price sensitive. One generation or 2 older hardware bought second hand can be better and cheaper than new.

Yes, I’m a huge fan of second hand as well, but this has to be a brand new laptop for external reasons.

I’m in fact writing this from a 12 year old Thinkpad that I restored.

What are your actual requirements? Are you looking for something specific?

Thanks for trying to help me out but in this situation the laptop must be new, sold through a retailer in my country that is on a specific list. I don’t think you can help me out with this one, there just aren’t any options that meet this demand that have no system or linux. They always come with windows preinstalled.

yooo old thinkpad <3

which model? xx20?

T420s.

I love it but it is pretty slow (i5 model)

There are newer Thinkpads that can also be found second-hand. With NVME storage and newer CPUs. The Linux support for them has actually gotten better. Lenovo is still the best hardware for Linux out of all the old manufacturing brands.

I watched a YouTube video where this guy buys thinkpads that are “broken” and often they just need ram installed or something simple, and for a minor risk of buying a dud, he gets laptops for super cheap.

It’s what I used to do myself. I have had multiple thinkpads that I bought BIOS-locked and fixed that problem using a screwdriver and some good timing :D Amazing machines.

But I am looking for something brand new, because of requirements that were not set by me.

Framework has their 11th gen Intel laptops right now as a barebones for $499 USD from B-stock, new components, if that interests you.

Otherwise, Chromebooks that you can flash replacement coreboot are another good option.

Unfortunately Framework doesn’t retail in my country and that’s the requirement. But that does sound very enticing, I’ll keep an eye on their B-stock. Thanks!

As for the flashed chromebooks that sounds like a pretty cool weekend project but I need something with a little more power.

Important to remember that not all Chromebooks are created equal. There are some that have i5/i7s or Ryzen CPUs in them that will rival most laptops. I see $200-500 USD Chromebooks all the time with decent specs refurbed or clearance.

Is the 500usd for the full computer? I got confused before that some of the cheapest configurations didn’t have everything needed to make the computer, like RAM and storage.

It includes everything except RAM, Storage, and the USB C modular ports. With all of that you’re probably looking more like $575-600. They do, however, have 8GB of RAM for $15, cheap storage options, etc, so it’s a pretty good deal overall for such a repairable and upgradable laptop.

Oems like dell pay almost nothing for their windows license. Compared to the cost of the laptop it’s negligible.

When I bought a Dell XPS choosing to have Linux installed discounted 100$ from the purchase.

That’s significant enough to buy a case or accessory.

I would not buy a laptop used

Why? There are plenty of cheap well built laptops that will easily outlive some new garbage PC.

Not really, most laptops lack upgradablity and you have no idea what state the battery is going to be in.

And a new computer wouldn’t have the same upgradeability issues? Batteries don’t normally degrade that quickly, at least not the ones in good computers.

There’s plenty of 2-3 year old thinkpads or other business machines for nothing out there. Most are upgradeable, and even if they aren’t you can just look for one that meets your requirements.

I have one, and it’s neat, but it just isn’t stable enough to be a daily driver. Used ThinkPads are the golden standard for cheap and friendly here.

Early 2010’s MacBooks also make excellent Linux machines.

If you uninstall Windows you can get a refund for it.

Dell sells Linux laptops too don’t they?

Every laptop manufacturers sell linux laptops they just dont know it.

Framework is a bit different, it has direct support for their hardware drivers on many linux distros and endorses linux to be installed on their laptops.

OP doesn’t want to pay the extra $120 for an OS he’s never gonna use. Yes everyone sells a Linux laptop but there’s a few companies that won’t charge you for Windows on top of that.

Thank you, it seems the point of this meme is lost on some Lemmings :D

Dell isn’t paying anywhere near $120 for windows. Only end users buying a one off license pay that much.

Right . . . but Dell ship select models with Ubuntu preinstalled, these certified devices come with their OEM package which has support for their drivers, etc. and obvs by selling them with Linux, they are endorsing it on their select models of laptops as well.

They’ve been doing it for a very long time now. I’m currently using a 2015 model, Dell Tablet. It has Linux support. Cost me about $250 (with a copy of W10 Pro), a few years back. I also got it with the hard shell keyboard dock, effectively making it a net book.

It’s been a great device, but probably isn’t what OP is looking for.

As does Dell, HP and Lenovo.

I can speak for Dells excellent Linux support with LVFS support and a responsive support structure.

Yes, but all the budget laptops from them I can find don’t have that option. Only a few select higher-end gaming models come with Linux.

Save money and buy a better machine later.

Especially now that they’re selling refurbished models at a heavy discount, you can get into the Framework ecosystem pretty easily and upgrade the mainboard later.

Hint: :q!

Sister communities:

LemmyMemes: Memes
LemmyShitpost: Anything and everything goes.
RISA: Star Trek memes and shitposts

Community rules (click to expand)

1. Follow the site-wide rules

Instance-wide TOS: https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/
Lemmy code of conduct: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_conduct.html

2. Be civil

Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
Leave remarks of “peasantry” to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
Bigotry will not be tolerated.
These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.

3. Post Linux-related content

Including Unix and BSD.
Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of sudo in Windows.
No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.

4. No recent reposts

Everybody uses Arch btw, can’t quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.

Please report posts and comments that break these rules!

Why can't I just buy it without being charged for preinstalled spyware?(lemmy.world)

linuxmemes

!linuxmemes@lemmy.world

Community stats

Community moderators