“A dream. It’s perfect”: Helium discovery in northern Minnesota may be biggest ever in North America::For a century, the U.S. Government-owned the largest helium reserve in the country, but the biggest exporters now are in Russia, Qatar and Tanzania. With this new discovery, Minnesota could be joining that list.
The helium used for balloons is of low purity.
The shortages you hear about are of pure or near pure helium. The stuff going into the balloons at Tommy’s birthday party isn’t the same thing used to cool superconductors.
EDIT: And I used to think Reddit was full of ignorant jackasses …
Balloon helium is 3% helium. So every 33 balloons is one Balloon worth of pure helium. No helium starts off pure. It all gets concentrated/separated to get that way. “Balloon grade” helium can be concentrated just fine and considering that thousands of those balloons are filled every day, it is a lot of wasted helium.
*I had my percentage swapped, it seems. Balloon helium is 97% helium.
Last time I bought what I thought was a pure balloon of He, I’m pretty sure it had gotten cut with fentanyl.
What the fuck are you on about? Helium is an element. Doesn’t matter if it’s low purity it’s wasted and then gone. When the high purity stuff is gone we can’t be like “thank god we can purify the low wall quality stuff” when that’s gone too
It isn’t exactly wasted. Like you said, it’s an element. Short of any nuclear reactions, it won’t be destroyed (plus I’m not entirely clear if any useful reactions actually consume helium).
Helium in balloons is returning to the atmosphere. We can re harvest it if we want. While that sounds wasteful, it might actually be more efficient than trying to purify lower grade helium.
I’ll put it this way. If the helium in balloons could be easily purified to what they need for industrial uses, we wouldn’t be using helium in balloons. Purification industry would drive the price of it sky high.
EDIT: Ignore most of this, I didn’t do my due research.
Helium in balloons is returning to the atmosphere. We can re harvest it if we want
No. It wafts away into space. All the helium we find is a product of radioactive decay- alpha particles- which gets trapped underground. Once it’s released into the atmosphere, it is effectively gone.
I won’t speak to the purification aspect (though I suspect purification is quite trivial), but helium released into the atmosphere is wasted. Saying it’s not destroyed is by the by, we aren’t going to recover it from space as it rapidly escapes the atmosphere.
Using it for balloons is still a waste because that impure helium could be purified for better uses.
No, no it could not.
The stuff used in balloons isn’t pure enough to be used for cryogenic purposes, which is what people really want it for.
And before you ask purifying it is really difficult.
Incorrect. It is not found naturally pure, it must be distilled. Balloon helium vs cryogenic helium is like comparing ice distillation vs vapor distillation of liquor. One is cheaper but both are using up a limited resource.
No helium found on earth ever, was pure enough for cryo. Not even close. All helium is found in low concentrations and spun extracted to concentrate and start to purify it. Then there are additional filter methods to finish concentrating it. Removing the hydrogen is about the hardest because it’s also abundant and small and light.
But helium used in balloons can absolutely be concentrated and purified.
yes you can, crude helium + air mixture (few %) is used in first stages of cryogenic helium purifying
wdym by “low purity” helium, helium that has been purified cryogenically is easily 99.999% if not better, and this is the main process used worldwide iirc
The highest grade helium is grade 6, grade 4.7 gets used for cryogenic purposes. Balloon helium is grade 4.
Tommy’s dad didn’t steal grade 6 helium from a research lab for kid’s birthday party.
Here’s a link to a gas supplier’s website with a chart: https://www.westairgases.com/blog/exploring-the-most-essential-and-underappreciated-uses-for-helium
I don’t know much about Helium, so I’m a bit confused… What’s to stop us from purifying grade 4 further into 4.7 and beyond besides cost? If the only thing stopping us is cost, then it’s not inaccurate to say that, regardless of grade, the non-renewable element of Helium is being used in frivolous ways because it makes more money to find profitable ways to use the lower-grade helium than to actually further purify and conserve it for more important usage.
Tommy’s dad didn’t steal tank of 6N helium, but it did rolled off the same facility using the same process, main impurity being air (considering it’s a rather minor use, maybe balloon gas is just what is left after cleaning or purging empty helium tanks of higher grade. so it’s maybe not a massive loss. recycling helium within cryogenics and MRI would provide more benefit)
also wtf is “grade”, 6N means “six nines” means 99.9999%. (americans will use anything but metric units) liquid helium freezes everything else out so it’s 5N without any special extra purification, or at least that’s my impression from looking up spec sheets of helium from facility that i know uses cryogenic purification for it
Here’s a link to a gas supplier’s website
Lol…
Here’s the people lobbying to sell as much as possible because of capitalism!
Do you link British Petroleum’s website when people talk about how bad climate change is?
This is like saying gold nuggets are worthless because people want refined products made of gold…
It’s fucking helium bro, it’s easy to separate it from anything else. Because it’s the lightest noble gas…
Fill a balloon with 10% helium and 90% atmosphere, and the top 10% of the balloon is pure helium.
That’s how easy it is to sepeeate it.
You’re incorrect, but at least you’re incorrect confidently, I guess.
Here’s a link where a helium extractor explains the process:
https://rockymountainair.com/blog/how-is-helium-extracted/
It’s a lot more complicated than “let it sit in a tank, bro. Trust me, bro”.
Well, when someone is having difficulty understanding something, people tend to dumb it down, hopefully to the point the other person finally understands.
Unfortunately sometimes that’s not possible, in the worse cases the idiot starts acting like you’re not specific enough and that’s the problem.
That’s like the universal sign it’s a waste of time.
It’s a gas. It’s effectively defined by the fact that the individual particles have too much energy to settle like that.
Separating a lot of liquids has similar issues though.
it’s much more complicated than that, and the most useful property of helium is its low boiling point. it goes like this:
first, you start with natural gas that has some nitrogen, some water, some helium, some carbon dioxide, heavier hydrocarbons, thiols, dust, and such. mechanical filtering gets rid of dust and mist, water, carbon dioxide and thiols are removed chemically, heavier hydrocarbons are removed on active carbon. now we have mix of methane, ethane, hydrogen, helium, nitrogen, traces of carbon monoxide, dioxide and water. this all is cooled down, first just to freeze out these trace amounts of water and carbon dioxide, then to liquefy what is left.
next this liquid mixture is put through massive distillation tower, allowing for separation of mainly nitrogen and methane. this nitrogen and methane are end products, some are sold as liquids but most are regasified in order to cool down incoming gas and save some energy. another product is helium concentrate, at this point it can be 50% to 80% with rest being nitrogen but this depends on exact facility.
then, some extra air is added to helium concentrate, it’s heated up and passed over catalyst bed. this is done in order to burn out hydrogen and any hydrocarbons, because separating oxygen from helium is much easier than separating hydrogen from helium. products of this burn are water and carbon dioxide that can be separated chemically. then again it’s all cooled down, nitrogen and oxygen are liquefied, then it’s all cooled down further and from some 30K on it’s just helium being circulated as gas because you can’t liquefy it like any other gases, it needs a special process. on every pass, with extensive recycling of heat some part of it is liquified and this is the final output, 5N liquid helium.
at least that’s how it works in a facility built in 70s in then eastern block. now it supplies half of europe and a research facility situated nearby. i suspect it was built with at least some military applications in mind during this time, namely helium is used for pressurizing hydrogen tanks of rockets, but also soviets toyed with an idea of using gas lasers militarily. this requires a supply of helium, and a supply of neon is also a nice thing to have in this situation. neon was produced in Azovstal cryogenic oxygen factory serving nearby steelworks, as it can be separated from air. it ended up providing virtually all neon for semiconductor manufacturing in the world, but from what i understand there are alternative suppliers by now
it’s much more complicated than that
But compared to extracting other gases (which virtually all of them aren’t finite) it is that easy
