Lemdro.id

19 points

1 year ago

What’s the trim in the electric car made of? How about the insulation around the wires? The clear coat on the paint? The lamination layer in the glass? What about the headlights and tail lights? The bumper covers? The logo and model letters? How was it delivered to the dealership for you to buy? You think there wasn’t any oil consumed in the mining and refining of the non petroleum materials that constitute the rest of the vehicle? You said stop buying oil. Not stop using gasoline.

report

PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee

[ - ]

9 points

1 year ago

The oil in your plastics for your car aren’t being burned, so they don’t contribute nearly as much as gasoline and diesel fuels do towards climate change.

Today is completely impossible to eliminate plastics from the global economy, so ranting about plastic use making it impossible to stop climate change is a red herring.

Only about 10% of oil goes into plastic. We can also make bioplastics out of corn and other agricultural products.

report

[ - ]

11 points

1 year ago

The oil to make that plastic still needs to be pumped out of the ground, refined, and manufactured into an end product. Leaving a trail of carbon emissions and other pollution along the way. It doesn’t just come out of the ground shaped into whatever you want it to be. Bioplastics made from corn are also very resource intensive to produce. While a better option, they’re not perfect either. It’s really not a red herring. Just because it isn’t polluting as an end product doesn’t mean they’re clean. And with things like toxic fumes from off gassing and the products from plastic degradation having long term consequences, it’s not like they just stop being bad as finished products either.

report

[ - ]

DoctorTYVM@lemmy.world

4 points

1 year ago

Ok, stop buying gasoline then. Because the vast majority of oil is used for fuels. Only a small percentage is used for plastics, like less than 1%. 50% is used for gasoline alone.

Simpler? Imagine if we could reduce oil GHGs by 50%. Just by changing the way consumers drive.

report

[ - ]

6 points

1 year ago

Global production of oil per day is about 90 million barrls. If we use your 50% for gasoline production that’s 45 million barrels. Or 16.425 billion per year. 3.2 billion barrels.) are used annually in the US. Or 19.45% of the global supply of gasoline. About 76% of that is used by individuals. And that’s a generous estimate. The average mpg of a car on the road in the US is 36. The average American drives 13.5k miles per year. Leading to an roughly average annual consumption of 365 gallons per driver per year. 83% of Americans drive frequently. Leaving an annual consumption of about 2.46 billion barrels per year for private citizens gasoline consumption. Or 14.9% of global gas consumption. And again that’s being generous on the average consumption per citizen. I couldn’t find any real numbers on the actual amount of gas consumed by individuals for individual needs in the US.

Also, globally, 45% of oil is used for gasoline. 29% for diesel and the remaining 26% are used for plastic and other products. So my percentage of the us’ consumption per year, and in return the average citizen is exaggerated by a decent margin. That’s not to mention the fact that the majority of the US’ industry runs on diesel. So if we’re going by petroleum fuels, the impact of the average US citizens gas consumption is even lower. You’re trying to eliminate 75% of 19% of 45%, or 6.4% of the total problem by switching to electric. And, again, that’s being generous.

Institutional problems CANNOT be changed by individual action. We need a lot more than 6.4% of pollution to stop if we even have a shot at unfucking ourselves. The answer to overconsumption isn’t more consumption

E: let’s also consider the fact that the majority of people with a car can’t afford to buy an electric car. What are they supposed to do? Stop going to work? Stop buying groceries? Walk miles for every errand? We can’t electric car our way out of catastrophe

report

[ - ]

DoctorTYVM@lemmy.world

3 points

1 year ago

> remaining 26% are used for plastic and other products.

I don’t think you read your source. The little figure of the oil drum shows 6/45 gallons goes to other products, including some to pladtics. That’s 13% not 26. And it’s wrong to say all of that is plastic is hilariously wrong.

You could have saved yourself all that time and math and gone to a single source about how much GHGs come from domestic drivingbin the US. Here it is

> The transportation sector is one of the largest contributors to anthropogenic U.S. greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions.

>transportation accounted for the largest portion (29%) of total U.S. GHG emissions in 2021.

> On-Road Vehicles account for 1,496.4 Tg CO2 equivalent

But maybe you’re thinking that the money Americans spend on gas in a year is piddly. After all it’s only $562 Billion a year. Pocket change for BP, right?

So do you think that eliminating that many tonnes of CO2 and that many barrels of oil from companies bottom line would have an impact? Maybe just a little itsy Bitsy tiny bit?

Or are you just going to keep pretending that consumer choices don’t drive markets and climate change.

report

[ - ]

4 points

1 year ago

When you don’t have a choice in the matter due to lack of capital, disenfranchisement, exploitation, lack of transparency, corporate consolidation, and corruption, it’s not really a choice. I couldn’t stop driving or buying petroleum products right now if I wanted to. And I do. I’m too poor. And many people are in the same boat. I stopped eating meat, buy clothes second hand, use vegan products in environmentally friendly packaging whenever I can, pack my own lunch, only use a metal water bottle (with a plastic lid because that’s all that was available to me), support green initiatives, donate, protest and encourage others to do the same. It doesn’t fucking matter at the end of the day.

It’s cheaper for companies to pollute and lie when they’re required to clean their act up. They buy politicians, write their own laws, move production to countries with more lax/no environmental protection and fabricate evidence of curbing emissions and pollution when they can’t avoid it. They will always avoid taking responsibility for their pollution because it’s cheaper than restructuring their entire business model. From soap to gasoline, it is always more cost effective to take the dirtiest, laziest route in production because they made it that way.

Individual choices can help. But to say it’s the best, most effective way to fix climate change is just a straight up lie. How about you respond to literally anything else I’ve had to say? Too difficult to argue against?

Additionally, I said 26% to plastics AND other products, which is a direct quote from my source, just below the graphic you mentioned. Are we just going to ignore the fact you said less than 1% is used for plastic in a previous comment? 13% of that 26 is used, primarily ,for other fuels. Fules that are largely used by industry, not individuals. And the same for diesel for that matter. Mostly industry, not individuals. What am I supposed to do about that? Tell global shipping and transportation infrastructure that if they don’t cut it out I’m gonna stop buying their shit? The portion of that market where my dollar directly contributed to it is small. And the same can be said about everyone else.

You shift between gasoline and GHGs to suit your needs. One comment its “stop buying gasoline” as if that’s a possibility for most people anyway, now this one it’s “focus on the emissions”. Because when I give you the numbers in gasoline consumption, its apparent how little our gas consumption contributes to global oil use. But GHGs are a bigger number, so bigger is better and I’m wrong now? Keep it consistent.

The global oil market earned 4 trillion Last year. You think that piddly 56 billion is a big deal?

report

[ - ]

DoctorTYVM@lemmy.world

-1 points

1 year ago

Do you know how many cars were purchased in the last year alone? 13.75 million.

You may not be able to afford a car change but millions of other people are. Guess what oil companies see there? Dollar signs. Because the ICE cars make them money. If those 13 million people bought EVs don’t you think maybe just maybe the oil companies would change tacts? Or do you think they’re cool with their profits going down?

You’ve spent so much energy absolving yourself of responsibility here. Maybe of we put that energy towards somethingore productive like choosing a meatless meal or looking at government rebates for electric cars or volunteering for an environmental NGO we might see more progress

report

[ - ]

4 points

1 year ago

Most Americans can’t afford a new car. If individual choices drive markets, and most of the consumer base can’t participate in the market, how are we supposed to drive institutional change with our spending?

They’re aware of the sales and public sentiment. That’s why they’re lobbying to roll back environmental protections and drill more. Their tactics have changed. They have gotten consistently more aggressive in their efforts to keep their business going. They lie, cheat and steal their way to the top to entrench their power and influence over individuals and governments alike.

Oil companies spend 124 million on lobbying. They spend 1.2 billion on advertising to shift public sentiment. If they own politicians, and manipulate public sentiment to shift markets in their favor how is that fair? What am I supposed to do about that? Our vote doesn’t matter and 70% of us live paycheck to paycheck. Where’s the room for us to consume enough to change business’ tactics? There isn’t any.

I wrote a paragraph about my individual contributions. Including things you said I should be doing. How can you honestly say that I’m trying to absolve myself of responsibility?

report