Lemdro.id

-2 points

2 years ago

There’s very few medical reasons to consume animal products and the few there are will hopefully have alternatives soon.
Bringing that up in the context of the general population going vegan is silly.

Cultural norms is not a good reason to engage in exploitation.

The cruelty is absolutely in the practice, killing others is wrong.
Non human animals are living and feeling beings just like you and I, they experience the world, they have likes and dislikes, they have best friends, they enjoy chilling in the sun.
Just like humans, other animals also have the right to not be needlessly killed.

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Alaknar@kbin.social

-2 points

2 years ago

> > > Just like humans, other animals also have the right to not be needlessly killed. > >

So when do you start a campaign to turn cats and dogs vegan? What’s the plan for lions and bears living in the wild?

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-2 points

2 years ago

Cats and dogs can thrive on a plant based diet, so yes that’s what we should feed them.

Wild animals don’t have the capability to consider the consequences of their actions or the possibility to not eat other animals, humans do.

Do you normally base your morals on what wild animals do?

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Alaknar@kbin.social

-2 points

2 years ago

Cats and dogs can thrive on a plant based diet

That’s flat out wrong. Cats are obligate carnivores, so feed them vegan diet only if you really want them to suffer horribly.

Wild animals don’t have the capability to consider the consequences of their actions

If you consider the “capability to consider the consequences of one’s actions” as the ultimate method of determining if killing is OK or not… then you should be equally fine with mentally disturbed humans killing other humans. Are you?

Do you normally base your morals on what wild animals do?

Let’s not involve “morality” into this, since morality is a very subjective thing. The morality of abortions being an excellent example. It also puts the whole discussion about, say, euthanasia in a very peculiar spot.

Also: what about the morality of extreme deforestation to make room for farms growing vegan food? What about the morality of the increase in carbon emissions, the destruction of topsoil and reduction of biodiversity that soy farming brings?

The problem with meat industry is that, well, it became an industry. Excess is the evil here, not the ACT of consuming an animal. There are plenty of ways of giving animals excellent, pleasant lives and then ending these lives in a way that produces no fear, no trauma in them. Or even awareness of the fact.

We are all just life. Life starts, requires fuel, and then ends. Sometimes life kills other life in order to get the fuel, and that’s fine. What we, as the most technologically advanced form of life on this planet can do, is do all in our power to ensure that while all the forms of fuel remain available to us, we do so without causing excess harm. Which also means things like growing meat in labs instead of obtaining it through the killing of animals, of course. I’m very much a fan of the concept of lab-grown meat, but that’s just something that’s not obtainable on a large enough scale in the nearest future.

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-3 points

2 years ago

Cats are obligate carnivores in nature because of taurine, cat food doesn’t have taurine because the ingredients are shit so synthetic taurine is added to meet the cat’s nutritional needs.
The same synthetic taurine is also added to plant based cat food so it meets the cat’s nutriotional needs.
Dogs are omnivores like us and can easily thrive on a plant based diet.

Yes let’s involve morality, needless killing of animals is immoral.

Most farm land is used for animal feed.
only 20% of soy is used for direct human consumption, the rest is animal feed, so if you want less soy farming you should drop the animal products.

Excess is the evil here, not the ACT of consuming an animal. There are plenty of ways of giving animals excellent, pleasant lives and then ending these lives in a way that produces no fear, no trauma in them. Or even awareness of the fact.

No it’s the act that’s wrong, needlessly killing other beings when we don’t have to is clearly evil.
There is no way to ethically kill someone who doesn’t need or want to die.
You wouldn’t accept these condition for “human farms”.

We are all just life. Life starts, requires fuel, and then ends. Sometimes life kills other life in order to get the fuel, and that’s fine.

Why be cruel when we can easily avoid it?

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Alaknar@kbin.social

-1 points

2 years ago

Cats are obligate carnivores in nature because of taurine

From the wiki:

Specifically, cats have high protein requirements and their metabolisms appear unable to synthesize essential nutrients such as retinol, arginine, taurine, and arachidonic acid;

There’s another problem of the cat digestive system just being too short to handle most plant matter.

so if you want less soy farming you should drop the animal products

I want to. Well, not “drop” but rather “limit”. That’s exactly why I mentioned “excess” being the problem here.

You didn’t answer the question, though - how do you feel about the morality of topsoil degradation, greenhouse emissions and biodiversity reduction caused by most vegan food alternatives?

No it’s the act that’s wrong, needlessly killing other beings when we don’t have to is clearly evil.

Please reply to this question:

If you consider the “capability to consider the consequences of one’s actions” as the ultimate method of determining if killing is OK or not… then you should be equally fine with mentally disturbed humans killing other humans. Are you?

You wouldn’t accept these condition for “human farms”.

Which conditions? The majority of farms - sure, the conditions are horrible and it’s exactly what I’m saying we should eliminate. But there are modern farms that have conditions most of the human population would gladly sign up for. Damn, I’d be one of them!

Why be cruel when we can easily avoid it?

Precisely my point. That being said, there are a myriad of methods of killing an animal without being cruel.

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-4 points

2 years ago

There’s protein in plant based cat food.

You didn’t answer the question, though - how do you feel about the morality of topsoil degradation, greenhouse emissions and biodiversity reduction caused by most vegan food alternatives?

I did; Most farm land is used for animal feed., so plant based food uses way less farm land and thus causes way less degradation and emissions.

If you consider the “capability to consider the consequences of one’s actions” as the ultimate method of determining if killing is OK or not… then you should be equally fine with mentally disturbed humans killing other humans. Are you?

Mentally disturbed humans who act violently are still humans and part of our pack, I think we should make sure they don’t hurt others.

Which conditions? The majority of farms - sure, the conditions are horrible and it’s exactly what I’m saying we should eliminate.

The conditions of “humane” treatment but still killing.

But there are modern farms that have conditions most of the human population would gladly sign up for.

You seriously think that humans would sign up to get needlessly killed for profit/taste…?

Precisely my point. That being said, there are a myriad of methods of killing an animal without being cruel.

How do you ethically kill someone who doesn’t need or want to die?

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