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33 points
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It’s bourgeoisification theory - wealthy workers in the West have been bourgeoisified by the superexploitation of the third world proletariat and thus do not actually have the same class interests as the rest of the working class. Sure, they might not have “quit your job at 40” kind of salary, but they do not ever actually experience economic hardship alongside the rest of us.

Those people will never support socialism. You have to realize this.

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22 points
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I can say for a fact that some of them do, but it’s definitely a lower percentage of the total when compared to average working class folk that support socialism.

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13 points

Fair, there will always be class traitors.

They can’t be relied on as a base of support though. They’re atomized and cut off from struggle.

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11 points
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What’s the cut off do you suppose? 100k? 150k? 70k? 40k? How poor do you have to be to count as a real socialist in your mind? Anyone who is having a portion of their labor being extracted by a capitalist owner can be radicalized. At worst you could classify middle class Americans as the petit bourgeois. Many have been fooled by being successful in a system where not everyone can be a winner but even Marx thought in the end the petit bourgeois would side with the proletariat. Look it’s not a great place to occupy for sure but the effort is to find coalitions not subdivide further

And anecdotally I find what you said to be untrue but maybe that’s just me

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26 points

It’s not a “cut off” it’s a material relationship. Anyone who gets to have a portion of the superprofits from imperialism distributed back to them can be deradicalized by this material relationship. They materially benefit from cheap commodities produced in the global South, cheap imported fossil fuels (and cheap externalized costs of climate change), cheap food grown on the backs of undocumented workers, etc.

This isn’t to subdivide the workers further, it’s to explain why someone in a cushy software engineering job isn’t going to want to sacrifice their comfort and security for the sake of strangers. They have no class solidarity because their class interests are not working class interests.

I think that this arrangement is decaying as the empire goes into decline - that’s actually what “inflation” is! People who were once bought off by cheap commodities and energy and food are now finding their budgets squeezed tighter and tighter. We are all being de-bourgeoisified by the decline of the empire and will once again find our material interests realigned with the rest of the working class.

This was a historical anomaly produced by US hegemony and it’s coming to an end.

Software engineers will be on the picket line with the rest of us soon enough.

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12 points

I don’t disagree with any of that; I think we’re basically saying the same thing. I think ultimately what you described applies to all first world inhabitants, particularly Americans, regardless of their job. The cheap comforts of capitalism via third world exploitation even for low paid workers is a significant barrier to class consciousness but the magic sauce is quickly evaporating. We’ve all been brainwashed at some point in our lives and eventually we woke up. Everyone is on their journey, and we’re all going to be on the same side in the end. my goal is to reduce exclusionary rhetoric to accelerate that goal but ig that just comes across as “um ackshully” to some folks.

Also I like your username lol

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12 points

I want to not believe this. But my experience has been witnessing PMC, and tech workers especially, acting as defacto wreckers more than once.

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