The phrase originally came from secular Palestinian nationalists in the 1960s calling for a democratic secular state within the boundaries of what was the British Mandate for Palestine, encompassing Israel, the then-Jordanian controlled West Bank and the then-Egyptian administered Gaza Strip — that is, the lands between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
The PLO of that era also advocated mass expulsion of Jews and their descendants except those who lived in Palestine before the late 19th century, and even that was ambiguous, so I don’t know that “The phrase doesn’t have any connotations of ethnic cleansing!” is really correct here.
The 19th century begins in 1801. I think you’re likely referencing a later date (probably 1917).
Seems like often ambiguous topic seem like the things both sides of any argument focus on and dig heels in about.
Certainly true. On one hand, ambiguous topics are a convenient way to discredit one’s enemies by ascribing the more extreme position to them. On the other hand, they can just as easily be a dog whistle or motte-and-bailey argument.
I also wonder if when we talk about foreign and domestic troll farms if those are the topics they push.
Its like the Facebook math questions “8÷2(2×2)=?” Which gets thousands and thousands of engagement and people all arguing not knowing better or they do know better and attempt to explain.
all of the land there belong to Palestine, so the Palestinians working towards a secular state on land that was stolen from them is ethnic cleansing?
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say, “Yes, a solution that involves ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing” and the right to self-determination doesn’t really affect that fact?
Well no, before the British arrived the land belonged to the Ottoman Empire. Before that it belonged to the Byzantine/Eastern Roman empire, Roman Empire, Greece, Persia. It hasn’t been a “free” land since at least the mid to early Iron Age.
Edit: Even then, it was only free from the end of the Bronze Age, where it was a smattering of city states either part of or beholden to primarily the whims of the Hittites, Egyptians or Assyrians.
The land was changing hands for centuries: https://youtu.be/8tIdCsMufIY (and if we care about silly things about who was first, that would historically be Jews)
In fact before the British, it was actually owned by the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) which sided with the central powers in WW1. The British enrolled Palestinians and Jews to fight them and promised to give them that land in exchange for conquering it.
Edit: I meant WW1
This history is about WWI, not WWII. The Ottomans didn’t exist in WWII and Turkey stayed neutral. The Ottomans allied with the Germans in WWI, but it wasn’t the Axis.
surprisingly, there were people there even before the Jews. they are not some indigenous population that sprung from the soil.
You realize the name Palestine is what the Romans renamed the land to add insult to injury after kicking out all the Jews.
You mean the Ottoman Empire? Is that supposed to be the same entity? I have no fuckin’ clue anymore.
