Reading about FOSS philosophy, degoogling, becoming against corporations, and now a full-blown woke communist (like Linus Torvalds)
Marx calls for exactly the same thing. A revolution that overthrows the current ruling class and installs a new ruling class. When the bourgeoisie overthrew the monarchs and their aristocracy they installed themselves as the ruling class, Marx calls for overthrowing the bourgeoisie and installing the proletariat as the new ruling class.
This isn’t a downgrade to democracy it is an UPGRADE to democracy.
This happened in Venezuela, Cuba, Russia (and in several of the Soviet satellite states), and China. In all of them but Cuba it was explicitly done by Communists in the name of Communism with the states goal of implementing Communism (Cuba was more of a Fuck Bautista thing that adopted Communism in the post).
Do you believe Democracy was “Upgraded” in those places?
No it isn’t because your description above is fucking wrong. I’m telling you what Lenin and Mao’s interpretation is literally right now. This is basic as fuck stuff.
I literally liked to Lenin’s interpretation. Lenin literally followed that interpretation. How is it not Lenin’s interpretation?
You’re acting like socialist countries don’t objectively provide a better quality of life than capitalist countries when compared at an equal level of development
Because they don’t over time. The conclusion of WW2 gave us the ability to observe the development of nations over time split into two with one half being Communist and the other being Capitalist. West/East Germany, North/South Korea, pretty clear record there.
Your understanding of any of these topics is incredibly vulgar
I think you may have meant to use a different adjective there.
Let me leave you with this. Do you without the benefit of hindsight in the 1920s would you have been a Czarist/Cossack or a Soviet? Would you have fled to Taiwan or stayed in China in 1945? Would you have fled to Florida or joined Castro in Cuba?
Can you honestly tell me that you in those environments would not have supported the Communist revolution?
Do you believe Democracy was “Upgraded” in those places?
100% yes. If you do not then you simply have no idea what the democratic structure was and how that resulted in more democratic outcomes. You have a singleminded attitude that the design of liberal democracy - a multi party system where the people that promise to implement the policies that the largest donors want end up in power, where they do exactly what those people want - is the only thing that should be called “democracy”.
The soviet system was democratic. But this democracy has a different structure to the liberal democracy.
Instead of voting for leaders and then locals. The whole structure is built on smaller locals. Typically you will personally know the candidate. The people elect via agreement with the candidate or not. Then the members of the local soviet(council) vote on who will represent that council at the next tier up, and then those the tier up, and so on and so forth all the way up to the national supreme congress which then elects the politburo and so on. This is democratic.
You can’t claim you like Cuba but that you dislike the electoral system in these other places. They’re literally the same. All of them were based on the soviet system.
You ask me do I think they’re more democratic and I ask you why 95% of the Chinese population is happy with and supports their government while less than 40% is happy with their government in most liberal democracies. Which of these systems is producing happier people? Which of them is producing a more democratic outcome in the eyes of its people? You can not use the racist claim this is propaganda, or brainwashing, because the study I’m citing for it specifically states that is NOT what drives the Chinese people’s support for their government, conducted by Harvard, as a 30 year independent study.
I literally liked to Lenin’s interpretation. Lenin literally followed that interpretation. How is it not Lenin’s interpretation?
Re-read what I said to you.
Because they don’t over time. The conclusion of WW2 gave us the ability to observe the development of nations over time split into two with one half being Communist and the other being Capitalist. West/East Germany, North/South Korea, pretty clear record there.
I’ve literally shown you a study that says the opposite read the fucking things you’re being sent or you won’t get another response because you are not participating in good faith, it is a waste of my time and you’re a fucking dickbag for being so rude and disrespectful.
Bringing Korea into this is fucking absurd. The US performed a genocide there killing 20% of the entire population and razed the country to the ground, 95% of all buildings were turned to rubble, and the south was then occupied with a dictatorship regime that carried out mass killings. The south has been under US military occupation ever since. Their country is on its FIFTH republic because the occupation state has collapsed so many times and been couped EVERY time by US backed dickbags. The population of Korea wants to unite, but the north and south can not, because every attempt at doing so the US demands a seat at the table where they then scupper the talks. As for East Germany, it had no industrial base and was the least developed and most damaged in the war? You’re not comparing anything on an equal footing at all. You want an equal comparison? China and India were both equal, roughly the same population size and level of development at the end of ww2. Which system has developed the country better and provided for the people?
Let me leave you with this. Do you without the benefit of hindsight in the 1920s would you have been a Czarist/Cossack or a Soviet?
100% a soviet??? Are you out of your fucking mind? Have you actually ever looked at what the state of feudal russia was under the tsars? Lenin and the soviet revolution are some of the most unambiguous heroes of history and only a complete and totally incorrect understanding of what Russia was before and after could lead you to think otherwise. You want to support an average lifespan of 30 years old and not the improvement to 70 the soviets brought? You’re fucking stupid mate. Dumb as a bag of rocks.
Would you have fled to Taiwan or stayed in China in 1945?
Once again you’re out of your fucking mind. The average lifespan in China was 33 years old when the CPC launched the revolution. The average lifespan improved DURING the revolution, civil war and invasion by the Japanese because the liberation communists were bringing to the population was better than the life they had before.
How the fuck do you think revolutions happen? How the fuck do you think communists get popular support? Magic? Through people just believing that things will eventually in the future be better? Are you fucking mad? People in these conditions support what will bring an IMMEDIATE improvement to their conditions. And that’s exactly what revolution brought.
Your grasp of history is tenuous and you are completely and totally propagandised. You have never engaged with these topics in any critical fashion and it shows.
I think you may have meant to use a different adjective there.
Nope. If you don’t understand what vulgar means in the political context you’re demonstrating further lack of political literacy, particularly as “vulgar marxism” is a term any communist (as you claimed to have been once) should be quite familiar with. But I think at this point in the conversation you’re realising just how obviously bullshit that claim is to any actual communists.
My apologies. Most modern Communists don’t view the USSR or PRC as examples of Communism. I falsely assumed you were in the same camp. Unfortunately for me, I can’t defend a Soviet Empire that caused the pain and suffering it did in Eastern Europe and Asia. Doing thing like killing half of all living Khazaks over a few years by intentionally starving them at scale, the Holodomor and the Great Leap Forward which killed more people than the Holocaust in less time are the sort of things I can’t defend.
The Communist system allows these genocides to happen in the name of Collectivism and hasn’t had a post incident process where it thinks and adds ways to avoid these problems for the next implementation is why I can no longer support Communism. When that changes I can reconsider.
Most modern Communists don’t view the USSR or PRC as examples of Communism.
Yes they do. You do not know any modern communists. I don’t think you could name a single serious communist party that does not acknowledge the USSR and PRC. Not in the west and certainly not in the global south where they are significantly less critical and more supportive of both.
You constantly demonstrate a distinct lack of any interaction with any actual real communists. Your entire knowledge of everything is through white western liberal circlejerking. You have never been a member of a party, or a union, or even a tenants organisation. You have never done any real organising. You are not and never have been a communist.
I can’t defend a Soviet Empire that caused the pain and suffering it did in Eastern Europe and Asia.
For the love of god I am begging you to read Blackshirts and Reds. Or sit through the yellow Parenti lecture on youtube. You’re just unfathomably wrong about this. These were feudal prior to the revolutions, living conditions were considerably worse.
Life expectancy does not go up when people’s lives are getting worse. What are you failing to understand about this?
Doing thing like killing half of all living Khazaks over a few years by intentionally starving them at scale
I have literally no idea what you’re talking about. This is either some utter bullshit that you’ve made up on the spot or another demonstration of your lack of much understanding of the topic because what you probably meant to say here was kulaks. What’s funny about that however is that you’re trying to imply that is ethnic killing in some way when kulak just means rich wealthy farm owners, the claim that kulaks were “intentionally starved” is nonsense, they were rich. They were dispossessed and forcefully collectivised.
Holodomor and the Great Leap Forward which killed more people than the Holocaust
“DAE communism is worse than nazism?” here you are giving away what you really support, you are a fascist upset at the fact communists defeated the nazis. Nobody within their right mind thinks this, not anyone that knows anything about the topics. Only fascists spread this shit, because it benefits them. Not only that, but it’s an antisemitic trope known as Double Genocide Theory.
If you’re NOT a nazi, I strongly recommend you stop hanging around with nazis, because half the shit you are spewing is literally nazi propaganda and will get you accused of being one by anyone that understands these topics. You were upset at your ban? It’s because you look like a literal nazi.
I also suggest you stop going around professing that you know a lot about communism and used to be one. You clearly don’t. It’s embarrassing. I get second hand embarrassment every time I read something you’re trying to bullshit your way through, it’s incredibly obvious and you just need to stop.
