I was raised reform Jewish and am half Jewish by family history. I have ancestors who were victims of the pogroms in the Russian pale of settlement – specifically, all four of my great-grandparents on my father’s side, along with their parents (my great-great-grandparents). When they were children their families fled and eventually resettled in the USA.
There is another place that they could have gone instead: Palestine. At that time it was still part of the Ottoman Empire, and some of the displaced Jews of that time did elect to go to Palestine. As it happens, my ancestors chose the US, but they could have gone to Palestine if they’d wanted to.
The fashionable posture on the left to take towards Israeli Jews recently has basically been a combination of glibness and vitriolic hatred, often reaching the point of wishing death upon them (examples: 1 2). I don’t know… I just can’t really feel good about stuff like that. The fact that my family ended up in the US and not Palestine is really just a quirk of fate. I don’t think that my ancestors were, like, morally better people for choosing the US over Ottoman-era Palestine. (And given the recent uptick in “Turtle Island” discourse, it seems like a fair number of leftists believe my ancestors shouldn’t have been allowed to resettle in the US either.)
I think that Zionism (with the possible exception of cultural Zionism) has generally been a noxious idea throughout its history. I don’t think the state of Israel should continue to exist as it is currently constituted, and I think the near-ubiquitous racism among Israelis is shameful. But I also don’t think that every Jewish person who moved to Palestine in the last 150 years was a bad person for doing that, and I’m not prepared to circle-jerk over the deaths of people that I have a fair amount in common with historically.
Am I missing something? Have I been hoodwinked by Zionist propaganda?
It’s mostly the political entity of Israel that we hate and the effect this has had on the people, and not each individual settler but the act of inhabiting another people’s land.
There’s a real Nazi germany hive mind going on there so it’s pretty hard to sympathize with them right now generally, but that doesn’t mean that there are no people in Israel who are against all this and believe that Palestinians should be free.
Sadly for them though because of everything Israel has been historically, everyone who hates imperialism will very justifiably cheer on as the genocide state is torn apart piece by piece when it’s time for it to reap what it has sown. They should either gtfo (which should be much easier compared to a Palestinian who is locked in the target zone), or join the resistance and fight against their own state
If anyone displaces and kills Palestinians, I’m gonna hate them, if anyone even tries to justify the displacement and murder of Palestinians I’m gonna hate them
Not all Israelis fall under that category, but most do, because Zionism at it’s core (including cultural zionism) cannot conceptualize Palestinians as human beings of equal standing, that would defeat the whole purpose of the ideology which is to nihilistically role-play as some Iron Age kingdom the Romans dismantled, but conceptualized under a 19th-20th century fascist white supremacist framework, the ideology makes no sense and can’t function if Palestinians aren’t dehumanized
And nobody cares what some proto-zionist did a 150 years ago, people are horrified by the genocide being carried out by zionists TODAY and it has to be defeated like any other form of fascism
it seems like a fair number of leftists believe my ancestors shouldn’t have been allowed to resettle in the US either.)
Also, what does this even mean?
I think theyre referring to the fact that America is/was a settler state so we shouldnt really condone immigration to America either since its founded on stolen land.
I’m just a white guy but I think that people who are persecuted should be welcomed anywhere; theyre refugees
idk if this requires a cw since the thread subject is genocide but i am about to discuss what it entails psychologically.
you guys laser focus on the small proportion of the israeli population that is engaged in activism against zionism
have you actually looked at the photos of the children who have been half shredded? that’s nothing. even more than the ukrainians, israelis look at videos of people being tortured constantly, and they enjoy it. if you don’t hate them, you’re just not preparing yourself to deal with the outflow of dehumanization and hatred of arabs and muslims that will come out of this. i still more concern for antisemitism. get real. it has never been easier for people to watch videos of people in southeast asia or the middle east to be tortured to death. and they love it. they think it shows them “the real world”
don’t make the mistake of thinking you’re reaching an understanding with liberal zionists who acknowledge the punishment is collective and disproportionate, even for what they have tortured people into falsely confessing.
there is nothing behind their eyes that will relate to you. they think you’re a worthless chump
And given the recent uptick in “Turtle Island” discourse, it seems like a fair number of leftists believe my ancestors shouldn’t have been allowed to resettle in the US either
This strikes me as extremely bad faith. Nobody is advocating evicting anyone or deporting anyone. You need to reframe this for me to engage in any way in good faith.
join_the_iww was the one who three months ago posted “Why do leftists make fun of anarcho-primitivism while also having positive views of indigenous movements?”
I mean, bless his heart, really, but by God this fellow seems to just be completely oblivious to Indigenous issues. It makes me wonder how much he can actually say about the land he stands on…
