I don’t get it.
People wanted another Bethesda game.
They got what they wanted.
I said in 2008, after playing the first Fallout game by Bethesda instead of Black Isle: “Only Bethesda could manage to make a post apocalyptic prostitute boring.”
They’ve always been boring, they’ve always had ugly character models, and the writing has always been bad. You get what you paid for. A Bethesda game.
Skyrim is literally one of their worst-written games and only has a saving grace of a wide open world that is interesting to explore.
Personal opinion, Morrowind was still boring, but had the best writing, best style, and required the most from the player. Morrowind was peak Bethesda and that was over 20 years ago.
I think the fundamental problem is that people had different expectations for a game set in space, both because Bethesda stoked them (all of that talk of having the idea decades ago / first new franchise in however many years / Microsoft bought the company just to get it as an exclusive / etc) and because after No Man’s Sky people kind of expected that with their budget / resources they would manage to fix that game’s problems and create something richer + more seamless.
In retrospect, if they’d simply sold it as “Skyrim in Space,” admitted to the limitations up front - same underlying engine, limited amount of variety to procedurally-generated content, loading screens instead of seamless takeoff/landing, etc - and not pretended that it was something new, the response would have probably been much more uniformly positive.
I think you’re on the right track, but I think it’s also because recent games did better with similar ideas. People shat all over Mass Effect Andromeda, but it hid loading screens behind interplanetary and FTL travel that was actually visualized. In my brain, I know they’re cutscenes to cover for loading data, but it’s enough to take you out of it being a “game” and allowing you to suspend your disbelief. It’s hard to suspend disbelief when there’s a loading screen constantly in front of you.
Yeah, but you can do the same thing in Star Field, just takes a bit of learning. You get the exact same cut scenes for loading even, ala Mass Effect. The reality is the game offers fast travel, as essentially jumping 5 times and loading and seeing the cut scenes is the same thing as just loading to the end.
This game feels more like a test, do you actually want to explore, or do you want to hop point to point for the quest. You can do either. It just seems to offer fast travel as the first option, but you can take the slow way around too
But they kind of already did say most of that stuff.
They said long before the game came out that there was no seamless takeoff/landing. They said they upgraded their Creation Engine for Starfield, AFAIK they never said it was entirely new.
Either way, I like it. Its fun.
Either way, I like it. Its fun.
And that’s great! I think we’re mostly talking about the people who are whinging about it. People who are enjoying it, let em enjoy it.
Everyone recalls, but they also recall Hello Games spending the next several years fixing the game and fleshing out to be closer to their original vision, which is what they were selling to people: their vision. They should have been selling the game, not the vision, but they took their fuckup on the chin and risked a lot. There was no gaurantee they would appease gamers and they essentially had no income except for continued sales of No Mans Sky.
Also NMS was Hello Games’ first real big game ever, so you can give them a little slack for having no idea what they’re doing.
Bethesda is a 30+ year old juggernaut who waits for modders to fix their games and has been re-releasing their last successful game for a full decade now.
Hello Games made NMS better because they felt bad. Bethesda made Skyrim better to re-release it and get more money.
Also, Hello Games is just 26 people and Bethesda is 420 people and owned by Microsoft.
after No Man’s Sky people kind of expected that with their budget / resources they would manage to fix that game’s problems and create something richer + more seamless
That was basically what I hoped for. NMS type game, but with Skyrim/ fallout level modding, stories, quests and deeper meaning to it.
And with better procgen. They have the manpower and expertise to do that.
I haven’t bought the game yet, waiting to see the initial responses. Now… I’ll probably pick it up on sale sometime, when bugs are fixed and there’s solid mods.
Honestly I still think waiting to buy a Bethesda game is smart if you aren’t a huge fan or something. Skyrim was pretty crap at launch and all the praise it gets now is mostly referring to Skyrim well after launch when patches and mods turned it into something good.
I’m fine with their writing and their overall gameplay. It’s just that they managed to make space feel boring and tiny. All those little areas in-between the loading screens really don’t feel like a vast space opera at all.
Also I wish they would just invest into some new game mechanics. Proc gen planets look great and exploring them could have been so much fun 🥲
As an enjoyer of both Oblivion and Morrowind I’m going to say that I think it’s more likely that the people at Bethesda who were key at making their past games good have either been promoted beyond their positions of expertise or simply left for greener pastures. Bethesda hasn’t always been trash, and people are quick to forget transgressions from nearly a decade ago (yes! It’s been that long!)
It’s been 21 years since Morrowind, and 17 years since Oblivion. Been longer than a decade. Two in Morrowind’s case. I would put Morrowind down as “peak Bethesda,” and their games have been slowly turning to crap since. I agree, I think they lost a lot of key players who worked for them, and they’ve never been able to regain their footing.
They’ve always been boring
Strongly disagreed. Pre-Oblivion their games were great. Hoping for a return to engrossing stories taking place in a rich, expansive universe was not entirely unreasonable.
Morrowind was their best, but I would say 21 years on, it’s really tough to be like “Yeah, this time they’ll get back to their roots.” No, it’s time to move on. All the people who made those games what they were have retired, moved on, or died.
Well, I’d argue that Daggerfall was their best game, story-wise, but Daggerfall is even older. And that’s the point, isn’t it? More time passed between Skyrim and Starfield than between Daggerfall and Oblivion. A lot can change in so many years, and I do believe that hoping for something new was not entirely unreasonable.
Then again, the keyword there is entirely, isn’t it. I personally didn’t expect very much from Starfield, and, also personally, I can’t say I fully understand the amount of hype surrounding it.
Surely there’s an element there of rose tinted glasses? All of us were 21 years younger. There were less games coming out and they were harder to get for many of us.
You didn’t need to work so damn much to keep your head above water, or were below working age altogether. It was a lot easier to find the time to really immerse yourself in the lore and it required a lot of reading both in-game and out.
It was also all new to us, truly novel experiences with every leap in gameplay, graphics or mechanics being applied to brains that weren’t completely immune to dopamine and over-stimulated constantly.
I played Ultima VII so much that my friends and I would quote the game to eachother at school…we were fully immersed in it and it was bloody huge for its day.
To be honest I barely even try with these type of games anymore. I know it isn’t going to satisfy me. I tend to enjoy mastering movement mechanics and skill based competitive games. Sure, they also release the same game every year repackaged, but there’s usually enough of a tweak to movement mechanics and gun physics that it’s a challenge to get gud again and I get a real kick out of genuine competition.
I played Starfield for several hours on the weekend and I do my best not to judge too harshly given what I’ve said above but I feel as though there will never be a game ever again that grabs me enough to make that genre worth paying the money. It’s me that’s changed moreso than the lore being watered down. “Damn you, Avatar!”
I’d recommend you go back and read some critical reviews of Arena and Daggerfall. The complaints are exactly the same: the graphics engine is out of date, the characters are lifeless, the writing is just okay, the story is shallow, etc. Bethesda has scaled back the RPG mechanics since Morrowind, for sure, but their games ultimately have the same Bethesda DNA, for better or worse. For what it’s worth, I’m enjoying Starfield at launch much more than Fallout 4 even now, updated, expanded and modded.
My friend, I don’t need to go read the video game history about Daggerfall: I wrote some of it. :)
And I stand by my statement. That game was the height of storytelling that came out of Bethesda in a bunch of small but important ways, although Morrowind is not far behind, in a somewhat different fashion. And there is a definite shift in the series from the moment Ted Peterson left the team. Patently, not a shift I am personally very fond of, but to each her own.
I think we were all expecting them to rebuild the engine sometime between fallout 4 and now instead of just duct tapping a flashlight (new lighting system) to it.
It’s such a bad engine the Phil Spencer came out and said every QA tester at Microsoft is working on Starfield:
The Creation Engine itself is just Gamebryo with a flashlight duct taped to it. IMO the engine is a huge part of what makes Bethesda games so fascinatingly unique.
Cmon guys stop being mean to Todd
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I didn’t play starfield but watched around 2 hours of gameplay. The story was kinda nonsense, the gameplay I can respect but I know it wouldn’t be for me. Like everyone says it’s fallout in space, but it seems like it takes itself much more serious
With how many call backs, jokes and references I’ve seen in the main plot: it doesn’t take itself too seriously. Half of the jokes have been directly related to the lack of dialogue options and having a silent protagonist.
I wish it took itself more serious. It’s tongue in cheek non stop but the jokes rarely land.
Fully agree. Lots of jokes; they’re not very funny, tho. IDK… Maybe it will get more interesting the further I get. I still wanna check out Neon (the cyberpunk city) and do deep space exploration (can’t even get out there yet). I’ve been to a museum ran by the Starship Troopers faction that gives a ton of exposition on the lore and it was a chore to stay awake through all that.
I’m not surprised. I haven’t seen vids or played Starfield, but just judging by how Fallout 4 and Skyrim play, I was gonna expect the game to get old and boring really quick between the bland gameplay and milquetoast writing of those two games.
Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Morrowind were probably their last good games, with Morrowind being Bethesda at their absolute best imo.
Probably. I haven’t played any of the DLCs, but I just can’t get into Skyrim nowadays because I get quickly bored of it all. The only time I managed to complete all of the quests and the main quest was back at release, but now whenever I play it feels like a slog to go through a painfully bland world and setting. I usually give up after a few hours of playtime, and now I just haven’t played in years.
Meanwhile, I was around 30-40 hours into my latest Morrowind playthrough before BG3 dropped, and was putting a fair whack of time into Battlespire, so maybe I’m finally becoming old lol.
I mean I’m gonna have to agree with the guy though. Skyrim was all but earth shattering… In 2011. Have you tried playing it recently? It feels old and repetitive. There is obviously still some fun to be had and some memorable bits but on the whole it’s just outdated plain and simple.
I think the vast majority of enjoyment people derive from it is nostalgia driven which I can totally respect, but that only lasts for like 4-5 hours once a year tops. I feel like a new player who never touched it in the golden years would likely get bored fast
No, I haven’t played it recently. I also don’t play Pacman anymore but it still is one of the cornerstones of computer games and a great game. Yes, Skyrim may be bland compared to modern RPGs but so are the others @Poggervania listed.
It depends, I think as unmoded would many say it is boring. The whole game is kinda of a meme even tho it wasn’t supposed to be. like killing a chicken and hell breaks loose, and how sweet rolls are an addiction to all the guards, how they keep saying the same thing and seem to live the same life. All of them could just have been one person (or two because there are female guards too). Some npcs are a bit interesting the first few times but it gets old quick.
I have played skyrim a lot but it is heavily moded. Every new playthrough do I throw in new quests and places, try a different mix of combat mods and Ai mods to make my enemies actually enemies and not just obstacles, everything to make it less monotone. I tried to play it again last month but my motivation just fell and I never felt like playing again.
I’d say Starfield is in a lot of ways a return to form. So far, none of the actual quests I got from NPCs were as simple as “Go there and kill bandits”, like the majority of quests in Fallout 4. Those proc-gen quests have been relegated to Mission Boards for various factions (and there’s also more variety of them. Beyond killing, you have smuggling missions, cargo transport, passenger transport, surveying and some other stuff). Most of the quests I’ve done so far have also been very interesting, I’ve talked my way out of multiple confrontations/bossfight and I’ve robbed a valuable trophy and bank credentials from a luxury cruise ship with not a single shot fired, just using my cunning, persuasion and a little bit of blackmail and bribery. I keep thinking that I am going to get those “please kill those raiders” quests, like when I got a distress call from somebody having trouble with spacers (this games version of generic raiders or bandits), but instead I had to repair communication satellites and negotiate a mutual defense pact with the settlers of that system. Like, I’m 50+ hours in (yes, genuinely) and the game keeps surprising me with new and interesting content. I feel like I’ve barely scratched the surface of the content available.
Sure, you can’t completely fuck everything up and go murder everyone in the game like in BG3 or FNV or something, but it is actually a really solid RPG. The writing isn’t as deep, philosophical and politically charged as New Vegas, but it’s good. Way better than Fallout 4s main story (and better than Fallout 3s main story, which secretly sucks.) I actually had some interesting conversations in the game and chuckled quite a few times at some of the responses I could choose. My background and traits actually do come up in conversation, even had one of my traits help me win a persuasion minigame (which is actually quite interesting in this as well). Skills like Persuasion, Intimidation and Bribery actually matter and allow you to finish quests in different ways. I get a little bit angry everytime somebody calls it Fallout 4 in space, because unlike Fallout 4 Starfield is actually a roleplaying game, even if it doesn’t live up to the heights of Baldurs Gate 3. If you’re gonna call it anything in space, Oblivion would probably be the most apt comparison.
bethesda announces game concept.
people freak.
bethesda announces game. 
people hype.
bethesda starts hyping the game.
people go fucking nuts hyping the game as a result. their social media team plants those seeds to make it look organic.
a year or more of speculation occurs.
todd howard being his little schmuck self comes out and boasts about their new game.
people lose their god damn minds.
whispers of shitty gameplay start occurring closer to launch.
the masses tell those people to fuck off how could they know, dishonest review etc etc.
the big names in game reviews all review it and give it out of the park amazing reviews.
people go batshit crazy. people are out in the streets killing their parents for a chance at the new bethesda god game.
the game is released and is somewhat playable but jesus fuck is it lacking, it’s buggy, and every character looks like they’ve been updated from skyrim graphics of yore. the story sucks. the game play is empty but goddamn is there a lot to explore.
everyone rushes in like a madman.
everyone realizes the gameplay sucks.
people start bitching.
others say “oh don’t worry, DLC and user created mods will fill the game out nicely.”
years pass.
the unpaid modding community pours their heart and soul into making the game not fucking suck.
after all the DLC has come out (all with mostly positive or mixed reviews on steam) the game will go dark for a year or so.
todd howard wakes from his capitalist vampire coma needing fresh life force. the blood money of his unsuspecting idiot fans.
todd howard makes it into the office and says we could make a new game or we can milk this game for the next decade and a half. quick come up with names to rerelease the game under. game of the year edition. complete edition. master edition. elite edition. remastered. remastered complete. anything works!
over the course of the next three decades, todd howard is fed the blood of bethesda’s fan base.
he is swollen, like a fat tick upon his harkonen throne, waiting to burst.
“the people. they call for a NEW game”, he says, a devilish sneer contorts his face.
and the cycle continues.
and these fucking idiots. every goddamn time.
If you like Bethesda games, you’re gonna like this one. If you don’t like Bethesda games, you’re not going to like this one. I don’t know what else to tell you, bud.
Don’t mistake the bitching of a vocal minority of lemmy/reddit posters and YouTube influencers (who bitch primarily for clicks) as “everyone”. There are actually a lot of people who like these games - myself included - and a lot of them aren’t on any sort of social media. I loved vanilla Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Fallout 4 and love modded versions even more. I’m having a blast with vanilla Starfield right now - easily dozens of hours over the long weekend. And I’ll probably love modded Starfield even more as well.
