So as we know Windows Platform Apps and WinUI3 apps do not work on Linux, I keep wondering if Microsoft were to launch a new API let’s say direct X 15 but limit it to Windows Store Apps, and provided a way for the apps to be installed from other stores like steam could they in time kill modern Linux gaming.
They tried. It was called UWP, but it never caught on and Microsoft quickly realized nobody wanted to use their store or even bother with the new format, so all their games also have a normal x86 version.
Their main mistake was never trying to make their walled garden not suck ass. I would try to install things from the windows store just to see about it back when I was running windows and it took an infernally long time to open the store, search for an app, and then install that app.
it took an infernally long time to open the store, search for an app, and then install that app.
After about a year of Linux and using package managers/AUR to install and update software, it blows my mind to think that I would ever choose to do it a different way.
I don’t know how I put up with that shit for so many years.
Some people are making fun about this, but if you look at the history of the steam store and how Gabe is focusing so heavily on Linux, it is because he is concerned that Microsoft is going to shut down Win32 and he will be absolutely screwed.
Due to this, he is creating a safety net for himself and is pushing Linux hard as an alternative to Microsoft Windows so that he can not be so reliant on Microsoft and what they choose to do and not do. Specifically when it comes to win 32.
because he is concerned that Microsoft is going to shut down Win32
Got a source for this?
https://venturebeat.com/games/valves-gabe-newell-talks/
Some of what Gabe Newell said:
I think there’s a strong temptation to close the platform. If people look at what they can accomplish when they can limit competitors’ access to their platform, they say, “Wow, that’s really exciting.” Even some of the people who have open platforms, like Microsoft, get really excited by the idea that Netflix has to pay them rent in order to be on the Internet.
That’s not how we got here, and I don’t think that’s a very attractive future. So we’re looking at the platform, and up until now we’ve been a free rider. We’ve been able to benefit from everything that’s gone into the PC and the Internet. Now we have to start finding ways that we can continue to make sure there are open platforms. So that involves a couple of different things.
One, we’re trying to make sure that Linux thrives. Our perception is that one of the big problems holding Linux back is the absence of games. I think that a lot of people — in their thinking about platforms — don’t realize how critical games are as a consumer driver of purchases and usage. So we’re going to continue working with the Linux distribution guys, shipping Steam, shipping our games, and making it as easy as possible for anybody who’s engaged with us — putting their games on Steam and getting those running on Linux, as well. It’s a hedging strategy.
I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space. I think that we’re going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They’ll exit the market. I think margins are going to be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, it’s going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality. But when you start thinking about a platform, you have to address it.
This was quite a while ago and as you can imagine a lot of websites closed but I found some references to it here and there and I’m sure if you dig deeper you’ll really find some good sources for yourself.
It’s definitely a hedging strategy to invest in Linux so that they’re not beholden to Microsoft.
https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=12517&cid=315125
And this one even has Tim Sweeney talking about it.
It’s very old news and the search engine that don’t really reward old articles too much, but it’s out there.
Thank you!
Sadly none of those links, unless I somehow missed it, directly quote Newell, but given the contemporaneous discussion on it and the citations linking to pages that no longer work, it seems benefit of the doubt is reasonable.
I think if Newell has gone on record as such, he is right to do so if MS does decide to abandon win32. Thing is though, one of the reasons win32 and even the registry have existed this long is so they don’t alienate developers.
It’s speculative, but my opinion is the only way MS would ever do this is if they decide to create a completely brand new operating system (one that eschews NTOSKRNL, NTFS, the registry, etc, in favor of something new).
However, it looks to me as if they’re all in on Windows 11 with this nonsensical Recall and other “AI” craziness, they don’t seem to be focusing on much else — so maybe that’s a good thing :)
I just posted a few links to the other person who responded to me and you can follow those and there is more detail there.
But basically if Microsoft were to try, which they did, try and move to their own app store, which removes win32, then all of Valve’s games ( in the store) will no longer become relevant over time, on the Windows platform.
You don’t just spend millions and millions and millions of dollars on Linux for no reason at all. It’s not like he’s a fanboy, he’s a businessman, and he’s protecting his business.
I guess I’m still confused on the why, is it because valve doesn’t want to update their games?
Why is win32 so important?
They’d probably feel the wrath of the EU if they tried that, hopefully. Also, I doubt Steam under the current management would do that since it would shoot them in the foot because they’d be giving up and abandoning the popular enough Steam Deck at that point. I’m sure they’ve made more than enough money back from it to not want to shoot themselves in the foot.
Hopefully, yes. But I’m sure MS and some hardware manufacturers salivate at the thought of being able to create a completely locked down computer platform. I own neither, but aren’t both iPhone and Playstation users locked into the manufacturers’ respective stores? Those seems to be perfectly legal in the EU.
I bought Gears 4 from the Windows store - they sold it as an exclusive there. We are not under any threat from that.
The store is clunky, it works about 40% of the time, it constantly needs updates, and there’s an install limit of 10 times before you have to buy it again. Even if they locked a tech like DirectX behind it developers wouldn’t use it.
and there’s an install limit of 10 times before you have to buy it again.
lol, wut?
it’s not true.
while there is a 10 device ‘limit’, that refers to how many linked devices you can have. you can remove one to add another. info and how to do that
I mentioned this in a lower comment but im also curious if they made an API allowing apps like steam to install WinUI3 apps would the same be true.
I suspect if they let steam do it there is nothing stopping steam from running it on Linux as well, provided the usual compatibility features such as proton wouldnt be deliberately incapacitated by Microsoft; which in turn would piss off valve a lot because of the steam deck and OS.
They invested heavily in their Linux fork and compatibility suite, if windows store were to fuck with that I suspect they would be on the losing end. Steam users are very loyal to the company and by default extremely hostile to proprietary fuckery.
They invested heavily in their Linux fork and compatibility suite, if windows store were to fuck with that I suspect they would be on the losing end.
This was why Valve invested in Linux and Proton. Microsoft talked about forbidding installation of Windows applications from outside their store under the guise of security.
I think the time to do that has already passed; the Steam Deck and even Linux gaming in general has really taken off, so it would impact far more people than before. In addition, I think the EU has started breathing down their neck and will pounce on them if they do anything so blatantly monopolistic.
So this hypothetical “Direct X 15” would be limited to only Windows 11 users outside of europe, and the games wouldn’t be distributable through Steam. I can’t see that being a good pitch to developers, even if DirectX15 was really good.
They also tried this waay back in Windows 8 with the Windows Store, and it honestly was a flop.
Never underestimate the fleeting willpower of gamers in the face of exclusivity deals. It’s already captured a large section of the market (xbox consoles literally just run modified windows now) and will likely capture more. It’s all about adding enough of a marketing spin on it until the average gamer stops caring, or concedes the value proposition or their morals in favor of something they want more (like a next gen Skyrim reboot or something idk 🤷♂️)
