No-one should be using any password manager built into any browser, neither Chromium-based nor Firefox-based. Browser password databases are almost trivially easy for malware to harvest.
Go with something external, BitWarden or 1Password, or if you are entirely within the Apple ecosystem their new password system built into iOS 18 is apparently really good.
Go with something external, BitWarden or 1Password,
When it comes to security software, I usually recommend sticking to open-source solutions, which is why I’d recommend Bitwarden over 1Password. Their whole stack (backend, frontend, and native apps) is all open-source. A premium account is well worth the $10/year.
You can self-host their server, or self-host Vaultwarden which is an unofficial API-compatible reimplementation of the Bitwarden backend designed to be lighter weight. Note that Vaultwarden is unofficial and hasn’t gone through the same security audits as Bitwarden has. It’s a good piece of software though.
Use ButWarden myself for a login-only subset of my KeePass content. I absolutely recommend it every chance I get, but some people prefer 1Password because reasons. And 1Password is pretty much the best closed-source option out there, which is why I do so… anything to give people options that keep them away from clusterf**ks like LastPass.
I migrated from Bitwarden to 1password because I wanted something that works better on Linux. With 1password-cli and PAM integration mainly. Bitwarden worked beautifully under Windows, but once I switched over to Linux, I realised that 1password had more Linux friendly features. I track some discussions over bitwarden that talk about implementing those features, I might come back at some point.
Definitely true… Using 1Password is still better than reusing the same password for every site. I’ve never used it but it gets a lot of good feedback, especially from Mac users.
What makes the built-in database easier to attack than a separate one?
For performance reasons, early versions weren’t even encrypted, and later versions were encrypted with easily-cracked encryption. Most malware broke the encryption on the password DB using the user’s own hardware resources before it was even uploaded to the mothership. And not everyone has skookum GPUs, so that bit was particularly damning.
Plus, the built-in password managers operated within the context of the browser to do things like auto-fill, which meant only the browser needed to be compromised in order to expose the password DB.
Modern password managers like BitWarden can be configured with truly crazy levels of encryption, such that it would be very difficult for even nation-states to break into a backed-up or offline vault.
It’s protected by the user’s login password. If an attacker can steal that or knows it already, the passwords are all there for them to see.
Bitwarden (on the other hand, for example) has 2FA options to unlock the database.
How does this work if accessing Bitwarden via the browser extension? I don’t like needing to type my master password in all the time as it’s long, so I have the setting turned on that times the vault out periodically, but so it’s also unlockable with a pin rather than requiring the master password every time. I understand the pin is shorter, but does the protection of the vault still stand?
Recently started using Bitwarden and it works really well. You can even ditch authenticator because it has OTP built in too.
I selfhost it though because I trust nobody with this type of sensitive data, encrypted or not.
Yep, for only $10 per year. But just make sure to keep backups of your vault and/or make an emergency kit.
The paid features aren’t free if you self-host either. You still need a premium account to use premium features with a self-hosted Bitwarden, unless you modify the code and remove the licensing checks. Licenses are pretty cheap though.
The major features are free if you use Vaultwarden, which is an alternative server implementation.
Yep, and Vaultwarden too!
Though the most secure practice is to store them separately.
The most secure practice for any high-value accounts (email etc) is to use WebAuthn with a hardware key like a Yubikey.
TOTP is still vulnerable to phishing (a fake login page can ask for both a password and a TOTP code) so business/corporate environments are moving away from them.
I was thinking about self hosting but I was worried it would be less secure. I don’t really know a lot about setting that kind of thing up (I do have programming experience but don’t have a lot of server hosting experience outside of doing it for games like Minecraft) and I feel like I’d mess it up and it would be a lot easier to get into than a hardened server. Especially cause the odds I get a virus or something is probably higher then the odds someone breaks into bitwarden’s server. Idk if I’m wrong about this, would love to be corrected if I am, was just my initial thoughts when I switched over from a different password manager to bitwarden.
I think the bigger thing to worry about is, what would happen if your server fails or is destroyed? Would you have a backup of all your passwords? And if yes, are those backups updated regularly and stored in a safe place that also won’t get destroyed if the server gets destroyed (like, say, a house fire)?
Then, yes, you got the cybersecurity angle too
It’s a lot to think about for something as important and fundamental to everything you do on the internet as passwords (and accounts)
By storing your passwords and otp in the same place it becomes 1 factor authentification
Technically yes if my vault gets compromised I would be fucked. I have it firewalled tho and only accessible from home (or VPN to home). So should be pretty secure. I used google authenticator but found it a major pita (can’t even search entries on Android, wtf?). If they make this more user friendly I’ll gladly switch back to a seperate OTP store.
Not really as you’re still protected from password breaches, which is most likely to happen anyways, especially if you self host.
If you’re actively being targeted for your bitwarden password, you likely have bigger problems
A friend has a notebook next to her computer with all her passwords in it. Initially I was horrified - what if you’re burgled? - but actually it’s genius. Much more secure than letting a browser remember them, and she doesn’t even need to memorise a Bitwarden password.
My mom told me that she was made fun of for having a book of hand written account credentials related to running her business (6 people total). I told her it was the best way to do it that wasn’t massively overcomplicated for her situation and to keep it up. The only recommendation I made is that she use different long passwords for every site since she’s already not memorizing them.
Personally I’m not convinced this isn’t the best way unless you’re being targeted by physical bad actors
Where is this book? In the office? I’d say that’s absolutely horrible. If it’s at home I think that’s more okay.
Or maybe behind a keyed lock in the office? Not a keypad, a physical key.
Just add the same memorized bit to the end. Something simple like “123” would work. Even if the book is stolen it won’t do them any good.
This concept is also known as Double Blind Passwords or Horcruxing.
It’s a primitive password manager, primitive because unencrypted and not integrated into your devices, but far better than not having a password manager.
Assuming the laptop is running bitlocker (often on by default), has a user password, and is offline, that’s pretty decent.
I just make all of my passwords password123 then I don’t have to worry about memorizing them
Me when I don’t use Chrome, I don’t use Windows, and I don’t use browser password saving either
