23 points

I really just don’t think our clean air strategy can involve “keep burning shit for energy”. Wind, water, waves, rays, and atoms yes… but not “burn shit”. Even if it’s useful shit to burn, it’s still a huge carbon release.

permalink
report
reply
3 points

Biomass can in theory work fine, since the process of making the fuel (growing plants) removes carbon from the atmosphere. Unless you use fossil fuels in the process of making and moving it, it should be close to carbon neutral

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

If you’re okay with using forests for carbon capture, then you can just bury the wood underground. There is no justification for setting the wood on fire to generate electricity.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Well the justification is that we need to generate electricity for a number of other reasons. I’m not suggesting that biomass is better than wind or solar, but if there are other reasons that those don’t suit the needs of a specific situation then biomass can make sense since it can be carbon neutral. It is, of course, important to make sure that it actually is that

permalink
report
parent
reply
6 points
*
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
reply
6 points

Clean energy can come from many things, but not from burning stuff.

Hydropower, tide-powered water turbines, osmotic power, etc can be clean.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

The way its currently operating seems highly inefficient, but the point about biopower stations is that they aren’t introducing more carbon into the carbon cycle. These trees would have died eventually and returned to the carbon cycle naturally, they are just controlling the process for human power. Imagine if it was running off of a tree farm that was geographically next to the power plant, for instance.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
*

It’s a matter of time scale. When burning wood from old trees, and planting new trees instead, and it take several decades for tree to grow old enough to compensate for what released on day 1. The emitted particules affect air quality, and emitted carbon will affect climate for decades. One of these effects is an increase in forest fire, and a burned tree cannot capture carbon.

Unfortunately we cannot wait decades to reduce emissions.

Similarly, burning fossil fuel isn’t introducing more carbon into the earth, it’ll eventually be absorbed by planctons, trees, etc and will make it back in the ground. That cycle is longer however, housands or million of years.

permalink
report
parent
reply
3 points

hydro? geothermal?

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point
*
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

I think there’s some new initiatives for deeper drilling to make geothermal feasible in most areas now. Would be great because geothermal is probably the best energy source available to us.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points
*

Fissile nuclear is clean enough. It has been smeared and misregulated through lobbying, propaganda, and donations to genuine believers among environmentalists by the fossil fuel industry. But even today uranium fuel cycle power plants produce less lifetime pollution per kWh than solar panels. Solar panel technology will improve, but so would nuclear with thorium or more technical improvements in reactor design.

Once solar panels don’t require rare earths anymore and once some new technology is developed to store electricity between peak production and peak consumption without massive pollution in quantities sufficient to meet everyone’s needs, it makes sense to phase out fission. But we’re still pretty far from that.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points
*
Deleted by creator
permalink
report
parent
reply
0 points

So don’t build your nuclear reactors in a place that doesn’t have shit tons of water?

Solar and wind can’t handle peak consumption without obscene amounts of heavily polluting storage. They should definitely get the majority of the attention and budget, but nuclear is still important and will still be faster to scale up faster in many specific locations. Get as much solar in the subtropics and tropics as possible, get wind in windy locations, get geothermal and tidal where that is viable, but get nuclear in places with plenty of water that are further than 45 degrees/5000 km from the equator in areas with little wind, and for peak consumption in places without hydroelectric or other power that isn’t best to keep at the max 24/7, and for quick response to fluctuations in wind and solar in places where other regulators aren’t available.

The articles you link are about experimental or niche tech, expensive or inefficient or both. Rare earths are still used in pretty much all solar panels that are actually being built. They’re also not the only form of pollution from solar panel manufacturing, transportation, installation, and recycling/disposal.

permalink
report
parent
reply
12 points

I mean, a biomass power station should have no net emission, that’s the whole point

permalink
report
reply
2 points

Akshually… That trash wood turned into pellets would otherwise rot, which releases CO2, but also methane. And methane is considered a far more powerful greenhouse gas.

So the net is in our favor.

Standing dead forests should be made into charcoal and plowed into food fields, which is very stable stuff and the biogas used instead of natural gas in my opinion.

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

Fair enough, that’s not a power station tough. IMO stone weathering is a superior carbon capture process

permalink
report
parent
reply
1 point

At least it didn’t create radioactive carbon dust… but is that a good trade off for increasing your carbon foot print four-fold?

permalink
report
reply
54 points

The North Yorkshire power plant, which burns wood pellets imported from North America

So the trees are grown in America, processed in America and then transported across the Atlantic before getting to Yorkshire? That must use up all the carbon budget before it’s even burnt, surely?

permalink
report
reply
20 points

Honestly it might not. I don’t have any actual numbers to offer here, but the sheer size of modern cargo ships often makes then surprisingly carbon efficient despite the horrid fuel they use

permalink
report
parent
reply
13 points

For regular products it is actually the remaining way per truck that accounts for the majority of their footprint. Kinda why I usually roll my eyes when people cry about dirty cargo ships, while likely driving their own personal car. There’s so many areas that would be more important to tackle first.

The whole concept of using wood pellets is bonkers though. You’re basically using land to grow trees to burn them, which is stupidly inefficient and certainly not sustainable. It’s pretty much a form of greenwashing, to give people the illusion of climate neutral energy production (similar to things like bio & e-fuels).

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

We can still ban bunker fuel.

permalink
report
parent
reply
2 points

We can and we should, yes

permalink
report
parent
reply
9 points
*

The underlying problem is that it’s on net reducing forest cover in North America, but that reduction in forest cover counts against the US emissions budget, rather than the UK one. This kind of shell game where you push emissions into another country doesn’t really solve anything.

permalink
report
parent
reply

Climate - truthful information about climate, related activism and politics.

!climate@slrpnk.net

Create post

Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:

Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:

Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.

Community stats

  • 4.3K

    Monthly active users

  • 6.2K

    Posts

  • 29K

    Comments

Community moderators