Every time people lament changes to the lore that amount to “not every member of species X is irredeemably evil” and claim the game is removing villains from it, I think how villains of so-caleld evil species fall into two cathegories: a) bland and boring and b)have something else, unrelated to their species going on for them, that makes them interesting.

-1 points

Any story pitching “good” vs “evil” is bedtime drivel dressed a different way.

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7 points

Talk about disrespecting the roots of fantasy

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2 points

respect is a funny way to frame this. The roots of fantasy, written when ontological evil was commonly seen as a thing present in the real world? those roots? or the roots when ethnic nationalism was the way of geopolitics? or when scientific racism informed much of the modern conception of races in dnd? respect is about the last thing anybody owes fiction, the world can change as beliefs do.

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2 points

I was mostly thinking about Tolkien’s legendarium and the tales inspiring his work. Some of its roots (like norse mythology) is far older and/or unrelated to what you mentioned.

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8 points

Polar Bears have a “evil race” reputation… I’m sure they are just misunderstood and will explain it to you while they disembowel you

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16 points

Polar bears aren’t intelligent enough to be evil. Depending on edition, they’re either unaligned or true neutral.

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16 points

It’s a lot more interesting to have a goblin that somehow managed overcome its evil nature if basically all other goblins are genuinely crooked and evil, than if they’re all “just another race” that’s misunderstood. Yes, most villains should probably be more interesting and nuanced than just being evil due to their race, but evil races/monsters aren’t a bad thing in a fantasy.

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15 points

No one’s saying in the setting you’re playing in goblins can’t be evil as a default. Having it be a blanket truth for all settings is a bit constraining though. Goblins specifically in the DND world probably shouldn’t all be evil alignment because their history is… Complicated

Pointy hat has a good video on it

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44 points

I feel like:

  1. No race should have alignment locking in any direction, because people are people and can do whatever they want. Our goodness or badness isn’t determined by our genes.
  2. But, people are who they are because of the society they grow up in and how people treat them. If humans treat goblins like shit because they’re goblins, and a goblin turns into a big bad because they want to kill the humans that slaughtered their village, then that villain is interesting for reasons tied to their species.

“No villain in D&D is interesting for reasons tied to their species” sounds very dangerously close to “I’m race-blind” in terms of not acknowledging that different people have different struggles, and racism is often a huge part of those struggles.

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8 points
*

Your number 2 is based around cultural, not species differences. Two humans raised in two different cultures could end up very different.

There could be two tribes of goblins. One that began eating people out of desperation and now just do it because it’s tradition. The other could have grown up in close relationships with their nongoblin neighbors and are seen as a valuable part of their region.

So untying evilness to their race isn’t being race blind or pretending people down have struggles - it’s removing the shoehorning that occurred.

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5 points

If humans treat goblins like shit because they’re goblins, and a goblin turns into a big bad because they want to kill the humans that slaughtered their village, then critical support to that goblin

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1 point
*

I think the one you’re replying was making the point that you could just swap out “goblins” in that claim with “humans with slightly different features.”

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15 points

If you like this idea, you should read the webcomic The Order of the Stick. It’s surprisingly good for a comic that started out as DND jokes and stick figures. It deals a lot with the problem of evil in DND.

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5 points

Likewise, Goblins.

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4 points

Deekin is a great example of how an evil species (Lawful Evil Kobold) can make a great narrative.

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5 points

I don’t think you necessarily need to have a whole species be one alignment for it.

Just having the culture of a specific community aligned a certain way (ideally with a reason) is more interesting than “all x do bad stuff because they’re bad and they like badness.”

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