Apologies for the slightly off-topic post…
It’s not looking good, folks…
George R R Martin confirms he hasn’t written anything for the 2 remaining A Song Of Ice And Fire books since 2022.
He wishes that they were finished.
The last published book in the series, A Dance With Dragons, was published in July 2011, now 13 years ago.
Obligatory song that’s now 12 years old… https://youtu.be/j7lp3RhzfgI
I honestly don’t know why this guy doesn’t just hire a couple ghostwriters to finish things, proofread them himself, publish them and be done with it
Or better yet… The pagecount on the next book is somewhere around 1,100 pages at last count which is more than enough to publish.
Find a natural breaking point around 700 or 800 pages, go to print and reset the clock.
Then you’re already up 300-400 pages on the next book.
I’m fairly certain that the last two books will be published close together. Grrm is well known for writing a chapter and then pushing it to the next book.
I’m fairly certain that the last two books will be published
Hahahahahaha…
*gasp*
Hahahahahahahahaha
I’m entirely unsurprised.
D and D got a lot of heat for the last season of Game of Thrones, but I’ve never thought they were entirely, or even chiefly, to blame. Most of the problem really is that GRRM obviously desperately needed an editor to rein him in as the series went along, but for whatever reason, that didn’t happen. So now he has this huge, sprawling mess of a story that’s going in eighteen different directions at once, and just as D and D couldn’t manage to tie it all together, neither can he.
D&D’s biggest problem is they did a good job adapting pre-existing material, but couldn’t adapt a PowerPoint deck.
IIRC from some article or interview way back then, Martin had provided D&D an outline of all the major plot points he intended through the end of the series. So while they might not have had the specifics, the major points would have been there.
If that was true, then it would make sense that they used those major points for the basis of the rest of the show. After the abysmal reception of those points by the fans, I would imagine Martin would have stopped to think about his plans, possibly losing interest entirely.
That assumes that he did in fact provide those major points to D&D in the first place to have adapted however.
I always felt that one of the main problems with GoT/ASOIAF was that it was a nuanced, political fantasy with top class world-building, but the overarching plot was pushing everyone towards a massive final confrontation (or 2 really). There was not really a good way to resolve the confrontation without a massive battle (or 2). So the ending was always going to have to move away from what made the series interesting/successful (book and TV), i.e. plot, characters, intrigue, shades of grey.
There were other problems as well, but that was something baked into the whole series by GRRM, and I’m not sure he can really find a way to do it differently. He might come up with a different outcome of the final confrontations, but it still has to be done with epic battles.
The Hobbit ends in a massive battle that seemed made for TV, but Bilbo gets a bonk on the head. I’m sure people don’t need to hear about the ebb and flow of the battle. Have King Stannis host a feast afterwards and the few characters left alive can trade highlight stories.
So the ending was always going to have to move away from what made the series interesting/successful
While you have a point, I don’t think the ending was necessarily bad because of that.
To me the resolutions they did use were just badly executed. I’d have been fine with the battle of the bastards resolving the Bolton plot, if the battle as shown didn’t make me scream at my screen every 2 minutes from all the logic holes. Same with the fall of Highgarden, Daenerys going insane, Bran becoming King etc. They could have reached mostly the same outcomes and it could have been fine. But the build up and the attention to detail just weren’t there at all. And it wasn’t even that they ran out of time, they deliberately shortened the last 2 seasons because they wanted it to be over.
I agree the execution of the end of GoT was bad (i.e. the problems weren’t just the issue of everything needing to come to a head). There were a lot of different complaints about how GoT ended, but I definitely saw a lot about how it was all just battles in the last season and no nuance. I think that was always going to be hard to avoid given how GRRM had set up the main plot. And I think he will find it hard to avoid when writing the last 2 books, which could be part of the reason he doesn’t want to do it.
He should just finish it off writing it like a historical retelling the way Fire and Blood was done. POV chapters are nice but when he isn’t going to release anything with that approach something is better than nothing so the last impression of the final arc isn’t HBO’s Game of Thrones.
Just make sure that Martin takes decent notes so that Sanderson can be tapped to bring the story home. Sanderson did a marvelous job finishing Robert Jordan’s giant story.
I love Sanderson, he is my favorite fantasy author, and you are correct about his marvelous job finishing WoT, but he is just not the right fit tonally for ASOIAF. He doesn’t even write swear words, and GRRM’s books are fairly liberal with the fucks and the cunts. I would however be in favor of Joe Abercrombie or someone with a bit of a darker bent to their writing taking over if needed.
He doesn’t even write swear words
Kelek’s breath, man. He swears all the storming time.
Brando Sando has answered the question a bunch of times, and said he’s not interested at all. Also, GRRM previously said he would never allow it to be finished by anyone else. Who knows? Maybe the publisher will force it.
Also, GRRM previously said he would never allow it to be finished by anyone else
If I remembered correctly, Jordan had also expressed similar thoughts, look how that turned out.
If he really wanted it to remain unfinished he could have pulled a Pratchett and have his hard drive steamrolled.
(Though, to be fair if you really want your data gone you should probably use thermite.)
I hear he plans to bring in Patrick Rothfuss to pick up where he left off and also not finish the story.
Sanderson did a great job, but my only critique was that the Tower of Genji part seemed rushed. The build up to that was almost as important as the Last Battle.
Also, I’ve read the series nearly 3 times and I stand by this statement: Fuck Faile. Fuck Perrin. Useless cunts
I liked Perrin a lot…until Faile showed up in the first place.
But I can’t argue your statement.
No mention of the rush of the ending? Who WAS Elan and why the link to Rand? So many questions left
The ending was pretty fast but it hit a lot of the points it should have. I don’t remember Elan since it has been a while and I’m neck deep in Malazan.
The link with Rand: i am guessing you mean what happened to him at the end? That makes sense if you recall him crossing balefire streams with Mordin in Shadar Lorgoth
Sanderson did a great job, but my only critique was that the Tower of Genji part seemed rushed. The build up to that was almost as important as the Last Battle.
I don’t think the rushing was Sanderson’s fault, but Jordan’s for leaving so much unfinished. My understanding is that when Jordan died, Sanderson was asked to write the “final book”. When looking at the material that remained to be written Sanderson said it needed way more than one more book. He ended up writing three, but I wonder if the material may have called for five. Sanderson had his own stuff he wanted to write and didn’t want to live for more than three-book-years-worth in Jordan’s universe. I can’t blame Sanderson for that.
Oh, I’m not saying I’m displeased at all - I’m just saying, that in a perfect world, I would have liked to have had him spread out the writing a bit more. You’re absolutely right - he had his own shit to do. He did an amazing job, all things considered. He also did us WoT fans an HUGE HUGE solid, and finished the damn thing when there was next to no hope that it actually would be finished.
Joe Abercrombie would be my vote if someone was doing it.
Sandersons books all feel like superhero meets fantasy, and he’s too much of a choir boy to match Martin’s tone.
Sandersons … too much of a choir boy to match Martin’s tone
I’d agree, it’s not an ideal match. But another talented, perhaps up-and-coming writer (as Sanderson sort of was at the time) could do a good job.
I think the same matter of authorial obligations pertains in that case
https://mastodon.social/@IlluminatiGanga/112993667854482371
but it’s a common society wide problem, Authors don’t meet their obligations to readers, Netflix does not meet obligations to fans, and companies does not meet obligations to consumers.
We know.
