After the ban of the c/christians community for having a rule against LGBTQ+ content. I wonder where is the actual line of what is allowed and what is not on this instance. (https://lemmy.world/post/1762563)

There are plenty of instances allowing hate speech against religious people. Looking through them I can see how they can be pretty offensive for someone who was brought up religious.

For example !atheistmemes@lemmy.world.

From their description

No Pro-Religious or Anti-Atheist Content.

Some of the content:

To clarify, I do not feel offended, as I am in no capacity religious and I am an atheist also. I also do not ask for the removal of that community as I don’t believe neither of the two should be removed.

But going through the content on atheistmemes the content there is far worse and more offending than it was on c/christians. While on c/christians only the rules where marginally breaking the rules, while there were no content that was in violation. This community in my opinion does both.

Allowing anti religion community while banning the pro religion one is creating a real deficit of different opinions here.

What is your opinion? Do you think that one should be allowed while the other not and why?

78 points
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33 points
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Precisely. They are banned for being intolerant, and any tolerant community must not tolerate the intolerant.

This is called the paradox of tolerance. If the tolerant people do not eliminate or rid themselves of the intolerant people then eventually the intolerant people will rise up and destroy the tolerant people. The only way to prevent either of those two extremes from happening is to not tolerate the intolerant.

If you fail to do that you cannot have a lasting tolerant community.

Plus I honestly want to know what the fuck these dumbass Christians think they’re doing by ostracizing and excluding people from their community when by Christ’s own teachings you’re not supposed to do that.

He hung out with the tax collectors and the prostitutes and showed them love and acceptance and mercy and compassion and as Christians you are supposed to act like Christ so how about you stop finding reasons to hate and to wage non-violent culture wars or violent wars against people who you think are going to hell.

What do you achieve?

Do you think God’s going to give you an extra shiny Gold pip star on your lapel because you bullied a trans person into committing suicide?

You think he’s going to give you a pat on the back when you kick your child out of the house and disown them for being gay?

Any Christian that really thinks about it, just really takes just one good solid day to think about it would realize they’re not being very Christian when they choose to hate.

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-2 points

I agree, you can be an atheist without offending the religious groups.

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39 points

That might be true, but in my experience many religious people get personally offended by any criticism of their religion. For example, discussing the idiotic contradictory ethically challenged or obviously false sections of holy texts is very offensive.

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-1 points

You are absolutely right.

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12 points
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-18 points

If you are so insecure about your sexual identity that you can’t handle some dumb kid posting funny images on the internet, then you probably need to rethink some of the choices you made in life.

If it’s more than just dumb memes, actually harassment or targeted hated, then take it up with the admins.

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55 points

One thing to note is that the posts you’ve linked criticize or make fun of religious beliefs, but they don’t call for violence, discrimination, or other injustice against religious people.

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-1 points
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The community that has been banned wasn’t discriminating people either, they were discriminating specific discussions. Where do we draw the line?

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17 points

From OP’s linked post regarding this community, the rule in question was this:

This community does not affirm practiced LGBTQ+ lifestyles

That doesn’t appear to be related to mere discussion, but the basic being of LGBTQ+ people. I’m not sure what else “practiced LGBTQ+ lifestyles” might refer to, and the phrasing is just a longer way of saying they reject their being.

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-3 points

If that was the case I would agree with you. But it’s not what they were banned for, they were banned for not allowing LGBTQ+ content on their community.

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30 points
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Your response doesn’t make sense to me. I’m referring to the four posts you linked on the atheistmemes forum. None of them express “hate speech” in the sense of calling for anyone to be treated hatefully, excluded from society, etc. They all express mockery or criticism of religious beliefs.

While this may be disliked by religious people, it’s not the same as (e.g.) calling for them to be discriminated against as individuals, driven out of society, etc. which are all commonplace anti-LGBTQ+ remarks from American, Russian, or African right-wingers.

“Hate speech” does not mean “speech that I hate”.

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-13 points

I still ask you to give me a post where c/christians were calling for someone to be treated hatefully, excluded from society

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12 points

they were banned for not allowing LGBTQ+ content on their community.

This is false. They were banned for maintaining a policy which denies that LGBTQ+ people have a right to exist as they are.

Also, you were totally allowed to make anti-LGBTQ+ content. You were only prohibited from making anything pro- because let me tell you, if you’ve ever tried to get glitter out of an echo chamber, it is a total hassle.

Rule #8: This community does not affirm practiced LGBTQ+ lifestyles, with the exception of the ace/aroace (asexual/aromatic-asexual) lifestyle in certain contexts. However, abuse towards members of the LGBTQ+ community will not be tolerated. Pro-LGBTQ+ content is not allowed; however, sincere questions and discourse about LGTBQ+issues are permitted.

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48 points

Despite their desire to be, Christians are not persecuted like they claim.

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-29 points

This is not true. Christians are prosecuted world wide, and its not only Christians, but also Muslims, Budhist or any other religion.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/june/nigeria-christians-killed-persecution-churches-destroyed.html

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25 points

Christians being prosecuted in Nigeria has no weight whatsoever on people writing things you don’t like on Lemmy. Don’t be so super whiny

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-18 points

Do you think people in Nigeria don’t access internet and there are none of them on Lemmy?

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4 points

You really think that’s a relevant response to the commenter you’re replying to?

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34 points

It is absolutely shocking to me the number of “I am an atheist but…” posts with crazy false equivalence arguments I have seen in the past several weeks on Lemmy.

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33 points

It’s understandable as the religious people also migrate away from Reddit. The fediverse cuts down their stupid “equal time for dissent” argument. The fediverse explicitly enables them to fuck off and start their own instance where they can put up their own rules and federate with whoever they want.

I’m with world on this one. Punch the damn nazis in their faces. No false arguments about tolerance here.

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-3 points

This is such a fucking wild take - I doubt you’d actually say that to a religious person’s face, let alone punch it.

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-6 points

It is absolutely outrageous to call religious people nazis.

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16 points
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Right? They’re way more likely to be neo-confederates or KKK members than they are to be Nazis.

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4 points

Evangelical Christians and Nazis share most of their positions.

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2 points

Well, all nazis consider themselves Christian

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3 points

It’s a new audience for old trolls.

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1 point

Care to explain why is it a false equivalence?

And yes people can still be atheists but stand for the right of freedom of religious expression. The same way someone who is straight can stand for the right of free sexual orientation.

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9 points

One is a community of people saying “these people should be killed” the other is “these ideas are stupid”. You didn’t link anything from atheist memes that advocates the death of religious people.

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-6 points

But you are just assuming, you have no proof of this kind of posts on c/christians. They were not banned because of content, but because of not allowing pro LGBTQ+ content. Please read the linked post first. (https://lemmy.world/post/1762563)

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20 points

There is no line. It’s up to whoever runs each instance.

I know you’re looking for a broad moral rule that applies here, but you won’t find it. Federation allows us all to coexist.

So if an instance owner decided that a specific community has policies they don’t like, it’s totally fine for them to shit can them.

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