Germany has entered the chat.
Remote working is the solution to gridlock. Shit, it’s the solution to expensive housing as well.
These jams aren’t just people driving because they enjoy it. They’re going somewhere. They’re all going to the same places at the same times.
Take away the need for them to do that, and it goes away.
But noooo, billionaires made slightly less money. So fuck the planet I guess.
I sort of not really agree. I think the problem is bigger. We make cities where housing and jobs are placed very far from each other. That leads to freeways. We need to accept the views, noise, and smells of industry. If we established safety standards that were enforceable, then we could do that.
Where does your breakfast cereal, sugar etc come from? Oh a factory in China. But what if you lived next to a sugar mill? Or walking distance from such a thing? You could work there! But you also would have to live with the fact that your kids would want to go to school nearby and they would have to walk next to huge trucks carrying material to and from the factory.
The moment you separate the factory or farm from the places we live in. That’s when things go bad. You then need modes of transportation on a daily basis.
Back before everyone had cars, we had company towns. Places like Cromford only exist because Richard Arkright needed somewhere to put his workforce. And while I’m not convinced that the solution lies in corporations owning entire towns, they could at least put on a bus to the local towns and suburbs to deter people from having to drive.
But how many people are really going into major US cities to make things with their hands? At least half of all work in developed countries is office work. And apparently everyone thinks it’s perfectly normal to take 2-3 tons of your own personal metal with them every day, at least an hour each way.
Well I’m an engineer and we make scientific type devices at work. We work from home if we get sick, specially with COVID. But otherwise, the pandemic really did a number on all of us. Like you can’t manufacture stuff if you’re not at work. But I do agree with you, if you’re only working on programming all day or writing stuff, filling up papers etc, then stay home and make it easier on yourself and everyone else. No only do you save money from not buying gas or bus tickets, but you also can get to work quicker and go home quicker since you’ll be there the entire time. And everyone else will also get quicker to work, saving money to the various employers, saving people’s gas money and moving with more efficiency and less pollution. And we probably don’t want to live next to the butcher shop or the radioactive ☢️ paint company. There has to be a balance somewhere somehow. Like maybe an app can help people with long commutes move closer to where work is. I drive to work every day against traffic. Tons and tons of people head towards Seattle every morning and away from it in the afternoon. It’s incredibly irrational to think that someone purposefully gets into their car just to park in the freeway for an hour.
Why does this article go on and on about dams? lol
For the moment, Big Highway feels every bit as powerful—in red states as well as blue—as Big Dam was in its heyday. But two generations ago, we broke our addiction to dams. The same could happen with our ever-widening highways.
Using the historical evidence that brought down another infrastructure giant as a roadmap on how to stop big highway.
ever-widening highways
I want to add that not only are the # of lanes increasing, but the size of each lane is also increasing. Every street my city remakes goes from 10ft lanes to 12 to 14ft lanes, sometimes with giant dead lanes in the middle or on the side. One of the stroads I used to cross on foot went from 50ft wide to 100ft wide. It is sincerely, deeply unhinged how we are destroying our cities with asphalt and concrete
The answer is jobs, and privacy.
The more roads, the more opportunities your citizens have access to. Also, those same people don’t want to live in Apartments that they’ll never be allowed to own, packed like sardines in a population dense building.
So, roads allow them to have their own houses out in the suburbs - and the more of them, the faster they can get to their destination. The faster they can get to their destination, the further out they can move. This also supplies businesses with a wider reach of the population for whatever their needs are.
And people don’t want to waste an extra 45 minutes getting to their destination by waiting on public transportation. We’re a population of people who - when we want something done - we do it now. Delays are unacceptable.
This is the quintessential ignorance to everything outside of a car-centric realm that is pervasive in North America.
The more roads, the more opportunities your citizens have access to.
This is only true when you have super restrictive zoning laws. The other way is to bring the opportunities closer to the citizens i.e. have more freedom to put corner stores, shops, hospitals in neighbourhoods, instead of having only big box stores in the outskirts with acres and acres of subsidized parking.
Another problem is there are very little variety of modern condos, apartments that are big enough to raise families, so many barely fit in 1 bedroom.
Moving suburbs further out ends up adding more time on everyone’s trip, it does not make it faster at all. Unlike typical NA bus systems, a good transit system wouldn’t add that much time and unlike highways and easily ramp up capacity during peak times so that it doesn’t take 2-6 times as long due to traffic.
The more roads, the more opportunities your citizens have access to.
I don’t think this is true.
Also, those same people don’t want to live in Apartments that they’ll never be allowed to own,
You can own an apartment
packed like sardines in a population dense building.
Density has a number of benefits. More cultural output, less isolation, it doesn’t feel like a post apocalypse scene when you go outside.
So, roads allow them to have their own houses out in the suburbs - and the more of them, the faster they can get to their destination.
This is satire, right? Poe’s law is real.
This also supplies businesses with a wider reach of the population for whatever their needs are.
Foot traffic is good for businesses and neighborhoods. Car traffic much less so
And people don’t want to waste an extra 45 minutes getting to their destination by waiting on public transportation.
Public transit is often faster. Plus I can do many more things on the train than I can while driving (reading, games, some kinds of work, etc)
Delays are unacceptable.
Car based transit introduces many delays.
Your post is a joke right? I can’t tell.
I was gonna respond to them but honestly, I couldn’t even begin to think of where. That comment was so wrong on so many levels.
Just the simple fact that someone would unironically say that you can’t own a condo is just wild to me, let alone the rest.
You don’t own a condo. In a condo, there is generally no individual ownership of land; the unit owners jointly own the land and building exteriors. Each unit owner has rights only to the unit’s interior space. All other spaces are controlled by the condo owners’ association.
It’s so wild that you’re so uneducated, and so confident all at the same time. You’re not taking reality for what it is, instead you’ve reached a conclusion - and then you work backwards to justify that conclusion, even to the point of deluding yourself into thinking something is one way, when it clearly isn’t; and then mocking someone for correcting you.
Peak Lemmy right here folks.
Privacy - on a vehicle with publicly visible license plates that’s being tracked by various license plate readers not to mention the various sensor outputs being uploaded over a cellular connection to be sold
lmao
I think people that don’t spend much time in dense spaces have a limited idea of privacy.
There’s privacy in the sense of being unseen, and there’s privacy in the sense of being unremarkable.
I can walk down the street here and people will see me with their eyes but not their brain.
In the suburbs where my parents live, if I walk down the street people will see and notice. It’s unusual to walk, so people take note of it. I’ve had the police stop and question me because I was walking (and I’m a white guy)
Being completely unseen isn’t as valuable as being unremarkable to me. I can ride the train with a bunch of other people and they’ll see me, but they won’t care
Yeah, I had this conversation with aunt. She grew up in a rather big city, and always wanted to move into the countryside for more privacy. Well, a hurricane leveled the area she lived in. She got a shit deal from FEMA, and insurance, etc. So, on top of always wanting to move away from people, it was easier to afford.
She regrets it, especially as she ages. The people, though farther apart, and fewer in number, are all up each-others’ asses. She said she went from being someone she doubted her neighbors fully realized existed, to everyone in the county knowing who she is, who her kids are, who her husband is, where they live, what car was theirs, etc. She said she never felt more under a microscope in her life. She said it really sunk in when she was at the store, and a woman she didn’t recognize, just said “Hey, aunt’s name, how is husband’s name leg doing?” He didn’t work in the area, like he worked a several hour drive away, she didn’t know this woman, yet she knew about her husband’s recent surgery. Now that she is aging, and has had her knees replaced, she is finding it more, and more, difficult to do basic life things, because there are so few support resources compared to where she left.
I got pulled over by police when I was in the US because I was riding a bike. To play devil’s advocate slightly, I was riding a crusty old Walmart BSO and I look like a scruff, and the town has a major homeless methhead problem so assumptions were made, but it still took them a while of talking to me to comprehend that I am happy to continue riding my bike, once they had at least figured out that I’m not a homeless methhead.
They are talking about the privacy that having your own home detached from neighbors’ homes affords. It’s wonderful.
Lolwat
Us construction quality is shite… Even Macmansions you hear everything everybody doing with the property.
The wood structure just passes noise through the entire house🤡
Also your neighbors care about who you are in because they can since there is so few people lol
While your every move online is tracked.
How is this different from a row house?
I will admit that living in wood frame construction apartments is degrading though.
But the issue is quality and type of costruction, not the type of housing but suburban trash would never understand these things.
Hey, but let’s talk about crime now
I haven’t heard anything my neoghbours do other than occasional drilling and I live in an apartment building with ~40 parties.
Just don’t build shitty houses
Privacy as in I get to run around the property naked, and do whatever I want, as loud as I want, without worrying about a shared wall. Personal privacy.
Every - single - apartment dweller that I have ever met, has complained about the guy upstairs stomping around, or the loud kids running around outside their door, or listening to the neighbor fuck their housekeeper at 2am. They get deliveries stolen from their front door so consistently that they need a PO box to have things delivered to. They’ve got crack heads and pot smokers that stink up the place and leave used needles around the area.
So yeah…Privacy. Privacy AND Peace.
We’re a population of people who - when we want something done - we do it now. Delays are unacceptable.
Believe it or not, this is actually a product of cars.
Believe it or not, cars are a product of our wants and needs. They aren’t an obstacle to our goals, they were the solution to our goals. People want to do things on their time schedule, not work around a transportation system that they don’t control.
Cars were forced on us. They are a solution to problems create that we cannot solve without a functioning democracy (which the US has never had, it has always been a plutocracy that serves the rich over the needs and will of the people.)
So no, I strongly disagree that people actually want car dependency. When cities were first destroying their city centers to make room for cars, people fought against it. But these days most people don’t know anything else than car dependency. But when they travel to other countries it is like taking the pill from the matrix and they wake up to how hellish and dystopian car dependency truly is
Not sure why you are being downvoted into oblivion. What you are saying is very true, but where we disagree is that roads are the only solution. Last night, I was looking at a short trip l need to make this weekend (here in the US): 14 min by car, 58 min by rail (with a 20 min walk to get to the station), 1h20 by bus. We brought that on ourselves, we’ve made it so that cars are the only viable option - but better public transit for example would make things a lot better, for a lot of people.
That’s pretty normal for this sub, to be honest. I’m fine with it, because at least the mods aren’t deleting comments they don’t like; they let people downvote instead. All in all while I would say I disagree with this community in many ways, I respect its followers and its mods to a higher degree than I do other communities. It allows discourse whereas others often don’t. I actually applaud the restraint of the mods here, because it’s easy to just delete opinions you don’t agree with when that button is available.
The actual followers of the community – Herd animals are gonna herd animal. Lots of people just want to be told that their opinions are correct; not everyone actually wants to debate the merits of their viewpoints.
Detached homes are fine but people buying them need to actually pay their worth to society which they do not right now. It’s a lifestyle that is subsidized by the dense cities as the sprawling infrastructure is not economically self sustainable. And it’s ridiculous that in many places in North America the only thing that’s legal to build is single family homes. It’s a falsehood saying that’s what most people want, when the reality is that’s the only option on most of the land. We cannot continue to economically or environmentally support that as the majority form of housing, we need more missing middle density like townhomes, four -plexs etc. Not to mention the cars whether gas or electric will become unaffordable to the average person in the next 20 years
Detached homes are fine but people buying them need to actually pay their worth to society which they do not right now. It’s a lifestyle that is subsidized by the dense cities as the sprawling infrastructure is not economically self sustainable.
What, in your opinion, are costs that detached homes are being subsidized by others not living in detached homes?
And it’s ridiculous that in many places in North America the only thing that’s legal to build is single family homes.
Its not entirely ridiculous. There are finite limits to local civil infrastructure. Think things like:
- public school student capacity
- fresh water supply
- sewage treatment
- road size in the localities
- capacities of public transportation
Unchecked high density housing in a small area can overwhelm these critical services things in short order. Some landlocked communities may not even have the real estate to build out additional facilities irrespective if the tax revenue exists.
It’s a falsehood saying that’s what most people want, when the reality is that’s the only option on most of the land.
You’re making a statement as though it is fact. Can you cite your source of that fact?
How does New York cope with its density and schools/services? It’s a mystery that cannot be solved, no way to know.
Also in Europe people don’t have schools or sewage, we’re feral educated and dump our poop in the river.
This should answer your questions: Not Just Bikes - Suburbia is Subsidized: Here’s the Math [STO7]
Better yet, just watch the whole playlist: Not Just Bikes - Strong Towns Playlist
The most obvious cost of detached homes is the completely unsustainable amounts of infrastructure required to maintain them. Roads, sewage, electric, etc.
It’s a well documented fact that suburbs of sprawling suburban homes are bankrupting towns/cities all across America and only the densely built downtown cores are keeping these cities afloat because the tax revenue of dense mixed-use areas is substantially higher than the cost of maintaining the infrastructure for these places. Check out Strong Towns if you’d like to know more and see the studies showing all this.
And people don’t want to waste an extra 45 minutes getting to their destination by waiting on public transportation. We’re a population of people who - when we want something done - we do it now. Delays are unacceptable
Cities built around public transit (like Seoul, Tokyo, Zurich, Vienna) don’t have that problem. Cars are what create unexpected delays. Cars are what ruin cities for everyone.
The whole one solution fits all, my way or the highway (pun intended) ethos that is rampant on Lemmy is exactly why their goals won’t be met. Refusal to compromise and blatant hostility will be met with much of the same, but hey, if I’m out here calling people with cars retards, I’m doing my part!
The average walking speed is roughly 2.5mi/hr - So 24 minutes per mile. You want stores every 1/12 of a mile? That’s unsustainable over a wide area such as the USA. It’s not sustainable to do such a thing in anything except for the most population dense areas, and nobody in this community seems to understand that there are people who don’t like constantly being around other people
People make noise. For some of us, we can’t stand it. Living away from populated areas is a matter of sanity, and peace, and quiet.
there are people who don’t like constantly being around other people
Do you think there’s a chance that catering towards anti-social attitudes is actually a bad thing for society, and that kind of thing might itself be the reason you so strongly feel this way about other people that you would come here and tell us we’re not allowed to reorganize cities thus that they allow us to be near people?
We get it, you don’t like cities. Nobody is telling you that you have to live in a city. But our cities should not be designed to cater to people who don’t like cities.
Biking. Public transport. And people live in cities. Rural areas can still have their mile-by-mile grid. Maybe some regular traffic calming.
I would be fine with people commuting to suburbs, if they weren’t endangering my life and sucking up a disproportionate share of the tax dollars to fund their lavish land use.
Cordon cars to freeways, make tailpipe emissions filter through the passenger air cabin filter, and stop using tax dollars to make more roads. Then I’ll have no problem with suburbanites.
Although, whether or no it’s fair for children to be subject to the fantastical whimsical lifestyle choices forced on them by their parents is a complicated matter. I sure wish I had a normal childhood. Suburban dreams of my parents kept that from me.
