“I’m unequivocal and unwavering in my commitment to Israel’s defense and its ability to defend itself, and that’s not gonna change,” said Harris, recounting the horrors of the Hamas-led October 7 attack. “Israel had a right, has a right to defend itself.”
Defending yourself should be things like building up border fences and increasing border security. Not invading another country and shooting people.
If only the situation were even that “good” for Palestine. It’s been an occupied territory by Isreal for years - long before last Oct. There already are “border fences” - Gaza has been under blockade by Isreal for at least 2 decades, restricting any movement of Palestinians. I recommend having a look at a map to see just how dire the situation is for Palestine when they have Isreal right in the middle and all around simultaneously.
Palestine isn’t even recognized as a country by several, including - conveniently - Isreal and the US.
So, neither of those proposed alternatives would really be a good argument to Israel I’m afraid.
Idk, given that Israel is a settler colony ethnostate with one set of rules for Israelis and another rule for the people who are occupied. The people they are killing have lived there for generations… it seems like we are handing military gear over to the baddies. But that makes sense given that we are also a settler colony.
I was Waiting for Harris to throw the VERY EASY win away!
How is it easy?
Be ethically correct and abandon Israel. Take a highly unadvised risk and lose the election. Uber douche dives headlong into atrocities.
But at least she could sleep at night.
How? You just jerk us off like every other Democrat in the pass and lie to us about shit you are going to do.
Just say you are considering all options.
Give a Gazan Democratic elected official 5 minutes to speak at the DNC.
Hint at things like how Reagan and other presidents have withheld aid or arms for violating US and international law, but just lip services. Make no real commitment.
Just wag the fucking dog and stop leaving money I. the table.
That’s how fucking easy. You just fucking lie and it’s easy.
The fact is, Reagan and Bush sr were both stricter on Israel than Kamala or Harris. So lean into that. We’ve withheld arms and aid from them before for this exact kind of shit.
I’ll be honest and say I don’t understand her reasoning and it baffles me
But regardless, so she didn’t do that. Balls back in our court. Help me understand. What’s the next play? I see people saying they won’t vote for her. I and most people here can totally respect that, but it clearly seems naive and shortsighted to a lot of others at best (no disrespect to the movement), and a legit threat to all the things we’re supposedly aligned on, at worst
The movement seems to be messaging, “do the right thing on this issue or else we won’t vote for you.” But, she’s basically “calling the bluff”. She thinks it’s all smoke or insignificant. Well, will people actually stay home? If not, what are they doing but looking weak and hypocritical? If yes, then what are they planning on doing next if she loses?
I think we have to at least agree that these issues/actions divide us. And that means it weakens us. That means many of us are willingly weakening the movements they claim to support, or allowing our movements to be weakened. There are many ongoing movements and instead of building bridges we’re actively silo’ing ourselves and engaging in antagonist behavior towards each other. Let me know if that’s an unfair characterization - of course, I have the recent division with black folks in mind.
To me, this is the part I struggle with the most, the seemingly sanctimonious disregard for meaningful, tangible change over support for say, real progressive legislation that gives power back to the people instead of corporations and the rich (but I see how this is my number one issue and it clearly isnt for others).
All that said, you certainly won’t ever catch me shouting down genocide protesters or making fun of them. I think it’s noble as fuck. And that shit was one of the tackiest thing I’ve ever seen liberal voters do
Sorry, that got long 😁 this is all so frustrating
jerk us off like every other Democrat in the pass
Reagan and Bush sr were both stricter on Israel than Kamala or Harris
I hate this argument. The Democrats always let us down so let’s re-look at the other choice…you know the one that actively went(and are currently going)for our throats.
Kamala could have left some daylight between her and Biden’s policy. Some room for a pivot after the election. I don’t know why her advisors steered her from that or what levers AIPAC and big donors have but they must be election altering.
I don’t care if we stop supporting Israel. I’m not saying people should shut up about Palestinians being slaughtered. I’m only saying someone running for president has to accept that there are more variables than you or I have.
The view that there is a genocide that the US is an accomplice to may be shared by a majority of US citizens but I wouldn’t bet the presidency on that it’s the majority of the voters.
Feeling represented yet?
I’m sure Ukraine needs what the zionists are throwing at civilizans. Maybe the democrats don’t care about Ukraine.
Awesome. /s
So genuine question what does this mean for the protestors come election day. Is there only choice to vote Democrat or Republican? Can they vote for an independent? How would it work?
Vote independent of course, I’d propose you should vote for Claudia de la Cruz from PSL if you live in the states where they’re on the ballot, and probably either Green or write in/don’t vote if they aren’t.
Canadian here so voting may be a little problematic :).
This is for an independent president, yes? Can you vote for an independent member of congress?
Oh lol I also am outside of the US so I don’t vote (except I’m voting for Trump by not voting for Kamala, as I’ve been told very often)
There are quite a lot of independent representatives and a handful of independent senators, though for what it’s worth there are still some congresspeople and senators in the Democratic Party that aren’t as disgusting as Harris herself. Many were successfully primaried by AIPAC sponsored candidates this election so they’ll have to run as independents, however.
They work towards passing state level electoral reform in their respective states so they are free to vote for who best represents them. All while secure in the knowledge that their vote would still be counted against the republicans.
It is possibly to late for this election without a general strike. But possible it remains. In fact, Alaska and Maine have already done away with First-past-the-post voting.
Democrats believe in democracy right? If so, why do the vast majority of blue states continue to use First Past the Post voting?
Tell any blue conservative that you are considering voting 3rd party and they will show that they understand the mathematical flaws of our voting system. Yet they do nothing to fix the issue between elections. Curious.
They can vote for anyone on the ballot in their state, or in states that support it, write in a name of their choosing.
It would essentially be a protest vote, telling the big 2: “you might have got this vote if you’d had a better stance on Israel.”
Protest votes are also a terrible idea.
Not only is this not the only issue in the world, but even just on this issue, with both (actual) options being bad, it’s still the case that one side is orders of magnitude worse than the other.
Protest votes are also a terrible idea.
Just want to make the point that this was the exact logic we had to stick with the grand malfeasance which was candidate Biden.
So no. Wrong. False.
They can:
- stay home - this results in whomever gets the most votes from everyone else getting the electoral votes for that district/state. In many districts, this benefits trump
- write in someone else - more clearly shows protest, but what that actually does or if anybody really counts it, I have no idea. Effectively the same as option 1 for the outcome of this particular election
- vote for a third party - basically the same as the above, though certain things do happen if a party gets some percentage of the vote, but not until the next election. The outcome for this election is the same
- vote for one of the two major candidates - self-explanatory
How much not voting or protest voting impacts the actual results kinda depends upon the district and state. However, even in a seemingly secure district or state, enough people protest-voting could actually have a negative impact in that particular election (though I find that fairly unlikely). I vote in a rural district that supports trump. Since he’s objectively worse in basically every way and has indicated that he’s willing to let Netanyahu’s government do whatever they want, I feel it unethical to do anything but vote against trump which, given what I wrote above, basically leaves Harris. If I know that trump will be worse, and I know that doing anything other than voting for Harris in my district helps cement trump, then I must vote for Harris or I’m just helping trump.
We are here because nearly everywhere uses first-past-the-post and voter turnout isn’t great, particularly by voters in local and regional elections. I vote as progressively as I can in local elections and advocate for ranked choice or rated voting wherever possible. People in power tend to hate ranked choice voting or similar because it removes what almost always just becomes a two-party fight which often leads to tactical voting rather than properly representing people. The state in which I vote also has a huge gerrymandering problem, but that’s another story.
